England - the aftermath
- Thread starter Plum
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The truly great players, and/or the best of their generation, tend to do something a bit special that goes beyond their own domestic league, though, don't they?
I can see your point but I personally don't think so. Messi is the prime example and even Ronaldo considering his little impact in their EURO win.
Then we'll have to disagree on this one. I feel that if Scholes was the player that he's feted as being, he'd have produced a bit more than he did beyond domestic English football (where he was, undoubtedly, one of the finest players of the past few decades).
You don't consider Messi or Ronaldo's Champions League records (which are 'beyond their domestic leagues') and resultant Ballon d'Ors a bit special? I'd say that Messi's 65 international goals and Cristiano Ronaldo's 85 are a bit special too.
It's just missing in my opinion at the end of that. Wether he said it or not it's his opinion, other world class players would say similar things about other players
Poor example, Wimbledon is regarded as the most prestigious grand slam to win, by pretty much everyone.
good for him
still don't know on what basis
feels like an english myth about failing to win anything because scholes barely played or played in the wrong position honestly
George Best didn't do anything outside of his domestic league. Di Stefano never won a World Cup. Neither did Puskas. Or Eusebio. Neither did my boyhood idol Denis Law or the mercurial Jimmy Johnstone.
Sorry, I thought the original argument was suggesting their club records don't indicate a great player?
Sure, goals are great but I don't think that's what defines "truly great players". Rooney holds England's record, is he a true great?
Thomas Muller would be classed as one of the best ever if International tournaments played a part. Was always banging them in until this years.
They should play all the guys who haven't featured so far in the 3rd place play off - does anyone really give a **** about the result - the difference in prize money between 3rd and 4th is £18 million to £16.6 million - ie **** all really - biggest non match in football
Di Stefano won five European Cups, 13 league titles in three countries and a Copa America. Best was, at least, the man-of-the-match in a European Cup final. Eusebio too, who was also a World Cup Golden Boot winner and was Maradona-in-86-esque in the way he got Portugal to the semis in 66. Puskas was a World Cup runner-up and three-time European Cup winner. His ludicrous 84 goals in 85 international games was a record until relatively recently. To drag the conversation back to the beginning, Paul Scholes's non-domestic record doesn't match Di Stefano and Puskas and falls behind Eusebio. As for Law and Johnstone, to be honest I'd considered them domestic greats - like Scholes - as opposed to global greats.
Goals alone, maybe not, but when you combine it with the other stuff I've mentioned regarding Messi and Ronaldo I don't think there can be any doubt. Rooney should have been a true great. If he'd stopped smoking and not been played with that injury around 2008 I think he'd have got close. Seems weird to think that when he was 18 he was generally considered to be better than Cristiano Ronaldo. One knuckled down, the other had a weird predilection for pensioners...
If being a Golden Boot winner makes you a great then Lineker is one and Harry Kane could be.
add to that Ronaldo scored 450 goals in 438 appearances for Real Madrid - there are not many players from the modern age who manage stats that incredible - Gedo had 5 in 5 for us once.. (just thought I'd throw in a City stat..)