The 'Better Do It Now' Chinese GP Chat & Predictions

[TopClass]

Bottas is a solid driver, He'd probably be extremely useful to Williams right now, but I just don''t see him anywhere near the same league as Hamilton, Vettel or Alonso. I think that 's why his seat is questioned.

+1

Nice guy, solid driver- just lacking the killer instinct of a WDC like Hamilton or Vettel.

The other thing that adds pressure is that because we have only got 2-3 teams who can win races in this era, we all hark for the best talents to be in the best teams to race against Lewis and Seb. If McLaren and Renault were to deliver great cars and 10 drivers could win a race, the scrutiny would be less on Bottas IMO.

 

[El_Bando]

+1

Nice guy, solid driver- just lacking the killer instinct of a WDC like Hamilton or Vettel.

He has more about him than Hamilton this season so far.

 

[allsaintchris.]

Well, it's a maturity issue, but it's worth noting that Vettel was the "crash kid" in his 4th season and 2011 was Lewis's 5th season.



I don't really see the two problems as linked? Sure making penalties meaningless reduces the effect of inconsistent stewarding, but it just papers over the cracks, no?

I'm by no means nostalgically wanting the good old days back (well except for the engines and the lack of halos). Want I want to see is penalties being rare, but meaningful, and for the driver's location on track and where he actually in race position to be one and the same thing. I don't have any problem with a drivers race being ruined if they ruin another's. Verstappen lost no positions net as a result of the penalty. The crash did impede his race, but nothing like the damage he did to Vettel's.

I recall an incident last year where somebody overtook off track and then pulled out enough time to not get put back behind the guy he passed illegally. When that sort of thing is possible I think we have a problem.

Yes, so its back to inconsistency in the rules and inconsistency in the application of the rules.

There have been many many incidents over the years where it was considered that a punishment was either too severe or overly lenient. You can't always hand penalties out on an eye-for-eye basis. If penalties are made too severe then drivers will be scared too overtake, just like they were a few seasons ago when the slightest contact would lead to a penalty.

What were the stewards supposed to do, give Verstappen a post race penalty to put him behind Vettel? What if Vettel had later retired? Then you end up with Alonso/Kubica incident from Silverstone many years ago when one of them was told to hand the place back, but then the other guy retired before he could do it so by definition of the rules, he ended up with a drive through penalty which was far more draconian than simply handing the place back, through no fault of his own!

Make the rules too flexible, inconsistencies will come back again, make them too strict and the racing will suffer again.

Max's move was clumsy rather than malicious and he got the same penalty that Gasly did against Hartley, so at least the penalty applied was consistent and he did ultimately lose a place so there was a genuine penalty. As for Vettel, bad luck for him, but racing is all about luck. Sometimes its good and sometimes its bad. He got lucky in Aus with the safety car, should they give Hamilton the win retrospectively because he was unfairly disadvantaged through no fault of his own? Of course not, it's part of racing.

 

[eddie_squidd]

The biggest penalty Max received was that he lost out on a very good opportunity to win the race, or to finish on the podium at least. He should have finished where Danny did.

So regardless of what penalty could have been handed out by the stewards there was at least some form of natural justice (not for Vettel sadly). Judging by his words after the race, and having seen his teammate pull off a famous victory, he may just have learned some sort of lesson here. And that's the point of a penalty, isn't it?

 

[Number 1 Jasper]

The biggest penalty Max received was that he lost out on a very good opportunity to win the race, or to finish on the podium at least. He should have finished where Danny did.

So regardless of what penalty could have been handed out by the stewards there was at least some form of natural justice (not for Vettel sadly). Judging by his words after the race, and having seen his teammate pull off a famous victory, he may just have learned some sort of lesson here. And that's the point of a penalty, isn't it?

Must admit he seemed very apologetic . If he learns , all well and good , yes there is no point having a penalty and not learning from it .

 

[Smithers]

I Just think the time penalties should be for infringements and post race penalties should be for incidents. It prevents rushing a decision that can’t be overturned.

 

[Number 1 Jasper]

Never mind 'Crofty', listening to Palmer on BBC radio is even worse.

Never has there been anyone so bitter about having to commentate rather than race............

Yes , he says sme good stuff , but then the bitterness comes out .

 

[Big Ern]

Ricciardo fortunate Bottas is a bit wimpy otherwise that would have been another RBR accident

Bottas is wimpy for preferring a 2nd place podium rather than crashing? He was never going to stay ahead of Ricciardo, the over-take was inevitable after the RBR SC tyre change, they weren't at Monaco. He took the best option, letting Danny through without compromising himself by losing time and tyre wear fighting a lost position.

 

[allsaintchris.]

I Just think the time penalties should be for infringements and post race penalties should be for incidents. It prevents rushing a decision that can’t be overturned.

mmm, then you have the uncertainty of not knowing if the position they crossed the line is going to be the same one once the stewards have convened and decided. Imagine if someone gets on the podium only for it to be taken away again because of a time penalty applied after the race which they didn't know about. You end up with the confusion from Austin where Max got booted out of the drivers room by Kimi happening more often.

There is no perfect system unfortunately.

 

[TopClass]

He has more about him than Hamilton this season so far.

3 races in though, and Hamilton is a 4 time WDC and one of the fastest qualifiers in history?

Granted HAM has been off colour in the last two races, but Bottas is a good chunk behind him in terms of ability (as are most drivers).

 

[SgtBhaji]

The biggest penalty Max received was that he lost out on a very good opportunity to win the race, or to finish on the podium at least. He should have finished where Danny did.

So regardless of what penalty could have been handed out by the stewards there was at least some form of natural justice (not for Vettel sadly). Judging by his words after the race, and having seen his teammate pull off a famous victory, he may just have learned some sort of lesson here. And that's the point of a penalty, isn't it?

He certainly shot himself in the foot. That might have been his only opportunity to win a race all season. Could be a very valuable lesson.

 

[Big Ern]

3 races in though, and Hamilton is a 4 time WDC and one of the fastest qualifiers in history?

Granted HAM has been off colour in the last two races, but Bottas is a good chunk behind him in terms of ability (as are most drivers).

He isn't being beaten by Bottas because he's off colour, he's off colour because he's being beaten by him, an alledged eunuch.

 

[eddie_squidd]

He isn't being beaten by Bottas because he's off colour, he's off colour because he's being beaten by him, an alledged eunuch.

Hamliton's form is poor. He doesn't seem to have a handle on the car yet, by his own admission.

He's leading Bottas in the standings though and would have won is Aus but for one of two of Mercs strategy cock-ups this season. So hardly a walkover from Bottas.

 

[allsaintchris.]

Hamliton's form is poor. He doesn't seem to have a handle on the car yet, by his own admission.

He's leading Bottas in the standings though and would have won is Aus but for one of two of Mercs strategy cock-ups this season. So hardly a walkover from Bottas.

Do we know what it is he is struggling with? Set-up, getting tyres to work properly etc etc?

We have seen him before suddenly have these 'off periods' , usually there is a woman involved which seems to distract him..............

 

[eddie_squidd]

Do we know what it is he is struggling with? Set-up, getting tyres to work properly etc etc?

We have seen him before suddenly have these 'off periods' , usually there is a woman involved which seems to distract him..............

Toto was saying they have had difficulty heating tyres up and with them overheating which is a worry. Don't know whether that's it and if Lewis is struggling more than Valtteri. Lewis has complained about lack of pace, not sure if that's to do with a lack of grip.

No idea if personal issues are involved.

 

[SgtBhaji]

He'll probably switch back on when he's a couple of race wins behind Vettel.

 

[Number 1 Jasper]

Bottas is wimpy for preferring a 2nd place podium rather than crashing? He was never going to stay ahead of Ricciardo, the over-take was inevitable after the RBR SC tyre change, they weren't at Monaco. He took the best option, letting Danny through without compromising himself by losing time and tyre wear fighting a lost position.

Could not agree more . The overtake was GOING to happen , why prolong it and risk a crash / Tyre wear ?

 

[TopClass]

All joking aside- given that Liberty Media proposals for a new engine and formula in 2021 have now arrived, isn’t it funny that the Merc pace miraculously went missing from Australia.

A bid to play possum and sucker Liberty and everyone else into thinking that the current engine formula is levelling out?

7 tenths HAM took pole by in Melbourne...

 

[SgtBhaji]

All joking aside- given that Liberty Media proposals for a new engine and formula in 2021 have now arrived, isn’t it funny that the Merc pace miraculously went missing from Australia.

A bid to play possum and sucker Liberty and everyone else into thinking that the current engine formula is levelling out?

7 tenths HAM took pole by in Melbourne...

I'm personally hoping that it's just a natural leveling out of the field that's starting to take place. No one team can stay dominant forever. It's going to happen eventually.

 

[DHCanary]

I'm personally hoping that it's just a natural leveling out of the field that's starting to take place. No one team can stay dominant forever. It's going to happen eventually.

It happens every time the regs change, the playing field starts to level just before they change. I guess there's only so much you can continue to innovate within the same constraints.

Hopefully Liberty/Brawn really nail these new regulations. Because when things start to stabilise around 2026, they need to be a good enough set of regs that everybody is perfectly happy with another 8-10 years.