Season 2017/18. RIP.

[DHCanary]

I’d like the board to give Farke the summer - many of the problems aren’t his and I think I saw hints of positivity (not least in the cups, where we performed very well).

We need to learn to break down teams, we seem capable both scoring only when we’re the underdog with less possession.

For me, Farke gets the summer and no more than 15 games (I.e. 1/3 of a season).

I'm fairly confident Farke has at least until this time next year before the board consider a change, whether the fans give him that long may be another question.

What are your expectations for those first 15 games? A play-off position? Top 10? More attractive football?

 

[JM Fan]

I'm fairly confident Farke has at least until this time next year before the board consider a change, whether the fans give him that long may be another question.

What are your expectations for those first 15 games? A play-off position? Top 10? More attractive football?

IMO, the last 2 on your list of options should be achievable, if NOT essential!!!!

 

[royalbarclayfan]

You could have put this up before Christmas, as this season RIP´d back in November . Despite the few odd ´clutching at straws positives´ that people have come up with, this season has been wasted. But I´m finding it hard at the moment, to envisage just how it could have panned out differently, considering the appointments we made last summer. Webber. for me, is still in the balance, Farke was far too risky an appointment, with no CV at all to recommend himself for this league, and at least one out of every three players we have brought in, have proved to be sub-standard. Add to all this, the fact that Gunn will return to Man C in all likelihood, Maddison will go without doubt, and probably a few others will too, in various directions, I can´t see much to enthuse about, or be optimistic about, as regards next season.

I´m afraid I´ll see it before I´ll believe it.

 

[carrowcanario]

Farke was far too risky an appointment, with no CV at all to recommend himself for this league, and at least one out of every three players we have brought in, have proved to be sub-standard.

Lambert was just as risky an appointment.

3 sub standard players, well that depends whether you think they were bought to make an immediate impact or for the future. If it's the later then the jury is still out. Anyway if you're looking for gems in a mountain of coal then you've got to expect to pick out a bit of coal along with the gems.

 

[JM Fan]

Fair comment RBF, but IMO, you're being too pessimistic re the future with SW/DF at the helm. [HASHTAG]#timewilltell[/HASHTAG]

 

[royalbarclayfan]

Fair comment RBF, but IMO, you're being too pessimistic re the future with SW/DF at the helm. [HASHTAG]#timewilltell[/HASHTAG]

You think so, JM ? I wouldn´t mind betting that if Farke is still here at this time next season, we´ll still be finding goals hard to come by, still be having tons of possession, and still be rolling around somewhere in mid-table.

 

[General Melchett]

You could have put this up before Christmas, as this season RIP´d back in November . Despite the few odd ´clutching at straws positives´ that people have come up with, this season has been wasted. But I´m finding it hard at the moment, to envisage just how it could have panned out differently, considering the appointments we made last summer. Webber. for me, is still in the balance, Farke was far too risky an appointment, with no CV at all to recommend himself for this league, and at least one out of every three players we have brought in, have proved to be sub-standard. Add to all this, the fact that Gunn will return to Man C in all likelihood, Maddison will go without doubt, and probably a few others will too, in various directions, I can´t see much to enthuse about, or be optimistic about, as regards next season.

I´m afraid I´ll see it before I´ll believe it.

I don't think the season died until we sold Pritchard. We were positioned firmly midtable, with him we had a creative spark that could have elevated us much like Millwall have. On the 9th January just before his sale we were two places and 4 points above Millwall who now sit 6th. Our record since then has read: w5 d7 l4.
i fancy had we kept Pritchard we could have converted some of those draws (Mostly down to our anemic attack) to wins and been right there in contention.
I agree in part that this season has been wasted, we had a far bigger budget than we can look forward to for the coming seasons and I think a squad that should at least have been closely challenging for promotion. Farke's naivete has cost us this season, any manager of course is a gamble and any other that we recruited would have carried a risk, just he was an admission in my eyes that this season was a write off. But totally wasted, I don't agree........yet. If we get promoted next season or fail in the playoffs then you could argue that this transitionary season was a necessary evil.
Harping on about Pritchard again, but had he started the season and Klose too, I could believe there could have been a much more positive season. OK half the team might still have taken time to settle but I think those two playing from the start could have improved some of the early season results, another 10 points by the 9th of january with us sitting pretty in 5/6th and either Pritchard might have stayed or had more suitors? It could have been so different.
Webber I believe in, although if Farke fails and does so too long then it will drag his judgment into question. 1 in 3 players failing is bloody good going when you are shopping anywhere,leave alone the bargain basement. I genuinely fear for us if webber gets a better offer and leaves, if we are to be self sustaining then we need someone like him to achieve it anywhere above lge1.
Farke I agree, too risky short term, long term the jury is out. There is some evidence of learning, but I still don't feel we have managed to field a balanced side as yet, that worries me and tempers any real optimism, especially when you consider the squad upheaval you mention that will be coming in the summer. I cannot see a scenario where by we have a better squad when we will in all probability lose, Gunn, Madders, Tettey and who knows who else? the point is that we know the replacements will be cheap, OK Webber might again unearth some foreign gems but they will again take time to settle. This will form a perpetuating pattern of poached best players and inexperienced newbbies from which it will be tough to really improve.
With the best will in the world, can anyone see Srbeny scoring 20+ goals next year? maybe nelsons replacement might? Who will cover Maddisons goals from midfield?
Like RBF I find it tough to be optimistic in the face of what I have seen of Farke's NC in tandem with the further cost cutting. I hope to be proved wrong and I'm sure a good pre-season and a not entirely destructive transfer window and I will have green shoots of optimism ready for the new season. i'm just rather prepared for the notion we will likely fail to see the top 6. And that next season very definitely must represent a failure of farke and the new regime.

Bah!

 

[royalbarclayfan]

Lambert was just as risky an appointment.

3 sub standard players, well that depends whether you think they were bought to make an immediate impact or for the future. If it's the later then the jury is still out. Anyway if you're looking for gems in a mountain of coal then you've got to expect to pick out a bit of coal along with the gems.

In my opinion, Lambert was not a risky appointment in any way - his CV then was still better than Farke´s was when he arrived. At that time we were at rock bottom, in a division we were far too good for, ( even I could probably have got us out), and Lambert´s CV was perfectly capable of coping with that. Where he surprised was in the next two seasons, in getting us to, and keeping us in, the PL, which has actually been proved several times since, as he´s never again reached that sort of success.

 

[General Melchett]

Add Murphy to the list of possible outs. If they watch all his games, they may not be so keen, I doubt also that we could get anything approaching the £12m reported for Jacob. Played in the correct way, I would love him to stay, but if Farke wants him to often be more central, then we should take the money and find another Henandez.

Bah!

 

[DUNCAN DONUTS]

Good- we didn't get relegated and kept lots of clean sheets
Bad -boring turgid displays most weeks with barely any goals

 

[royalbarclayfan]

1 in 3 players failing is bloody good going when you are shopping anywhere,leave alone the bargain basement. I genuinely fear for us if webber gets a better offer and leaves, if we are to be self sustaining then we need someone like him to achieve it anywhere above lge1.

Like RBF I find it tough to be optimistic in the face of what I have seen of Farke's NC in tandem with the further cost cutting. I hope to be proved wrong and I'm sure a good pre-season and a not entirely destructive transfer window and I will have green shoots of optimism ready for the new season. i'm just rather prepared for the notion we will likely fail to see the top 6. And that next season very definitely must represent a failure of farke and the new regime.

Bah!

 

[royalbarclayfan]

1 in 3 players failing is bloody good going when you are shopping anywhere,leave alone the bargain basement. I genuinely fear for us if webber gets a better offer and leaves, if we are to be self sustaining then we need someone like him to achieve it anywhere above lge1.

Like RBF I find it tough to be optimistic in the face of what I have seen of Farke's NC in tandem with the further cost cutting. I hope to be proved wrong and I'm sure a good pre-season and a not entirely destructive transfer window and I will have green shoots of optimism ready for the new season. i'm just rather prepared for the notion we will likely fail to see the top 6. And that next season very definitely must represent a failure of farke and the new regime.

Bah!

Afternoon General - I did actually write "at least" one out of every three players, and I was being cautious and generous at the time, so´s not to ruffle too many feathers. I think I could probably have said two out of every three we brought in have been under par, without any fear of recrimination. In fact from where I´ve been following, isn´t Zimmermann the only one who's really impressed on a weekly basis?

 

[Canary Rob]

I'm fairly confident Farke has at least until this time next year before the board consider a change, whether the fans give him that long may be another question.

What are your expectations for those first 15 games? A play-off position? Top 10? More attractive football?

Fifteen matches is me being too precise - roughly a third of the season is better (so it could be fewer matches than that or it could be well into December if in the balance).

Having hard and fast measures I think is dangerous when assessing a manager. Clearly, though, the league position needs to be good (i.e. in touch with the play-offs as a minimum, I’d say even that gives some uncertainty).

It’s more that there needs to be the right feel about the place. The fans need to feel like they can get behind the team - roughly how we felt back in December when things were going well. A bit like Hughton’s last season in charge where we looked like we were clear of relegation for much of the season but everyone knew the fans were not behind him from about September/October. The board sacked him too late.

So I appreciate that is a bit vague, but we need to change manager well before the January transfer window if the league position isn’t decent and the whole club “feel” isn’t there. We will know it when we see it.


It might be easier to look at it as: Farke’s on his last few chances. He gets the summer, then he needs to show he can get the team to play consistently in the way he has only intermittently managed this season. I’m willing to give him a bit of time to prove that next season, but not much.

I also think, as alluded to above, he’s been pretty good in the transfer window - best since Lambert when measured by amounts spent and success/failure proportion, so I would like to see his choices in the summer.

 

[DHCanary]

Whilst there will be cost cutting, and undoubtedly some good players sold, hopefully a lot of that will come from getting rid of the likes of Naismith, Martin, Jarvis, McGovern, Oliveira, Wildschut, plus hopefully Watkins and Franke. Tettey and Wes seem unlikely to stay too. There's probably a comfortable £250k p/w to be saved there, with little impact on the first team squad. That's £13m a year!

I think with our TD setup, there's less of a need to give the new manager time with the squad before a window. Transfers, and to certain degree our playing style, is going to be much more Webber's domain. He came in saying the transfer policy needs to be right, and I'm amazed how much decent business we managed last summer, given it wouldn't be unfair to say we were shopping without a functional scouting system, and with Webber only in the job a short while. I think most of our signings were players Webber was already keeping tabs on from his Huddersfield days. So hopefully this summer, with plenty of preparation, we can do better.

 

[DUNCAN DONUTS]

Afternoon General - I did actually write "at least" one out of every three players, and I was being cautious and generous at the time, so´s not to ruffle too many feathers. I think I could probably have said two out of every three we brought in have been under par, without any fear of recrimination. In fact from where I´ve been following, isn´t Zimmermann the only one who's really impressed on a weekly basis?

Trybull and Hanley rarely have a poor game

 

[JM Fan]

You think so, JM ? I wouldn´t mind betting that if Farke is still here at this time next season, we´ll still be finding goals hard to come by, still be having tons of possession, and still be rolling around somewhere in mid-table.

No problem RBF and we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one then.

I've just gone through the players SW/DF have signed and given them MY rating/comment based on what I've witnessed.

Husband - C -- Hasn't played very regularly due to the likes of Lewis and when he has played, not terribly impressed.
Zimmerman - A+ -- Struggled at first, but has been a first team regular for many months and isn't afraid to get blocks in.
Franke - D -- Hasn't shown any potential, so loaned out
Hanley - As Zimmerman
Raggett - No rating, as I haven't seen him play
Trybull - A++ -- Has shown real flashes of excellence and can only improve with pre season etc. Recently signed a new contract
Vrancic - B+ -- Struggled to get to come to terms with the Championship, but recent performances have shown vast improvement
Leitner - A** -- Likely that he will only be at CR until the end of the season, but in the few months he's been here,has shown real flashed of what he's capable of. Really feel that he'll move on in the summer along with JM!!
Stiepermann - C -- Again, has had very little game time, due to other players being better than him. Haven't seen him play.
Hernandez - A -- Haven't seen much of him, but shows real promise (when not injured!!)
SirBenny - A -- A very recent acquisition, but has shown that he can at least get SOME of his shots on target. Another player who'll benefit who can only improve with pre season etc.
Apologies if I've missed anyone out

Edit - These are ONLY my views, but I'd JUST like to say that I spotted JM's talent in pre season 2016-2017!!!
PS - The other JM (ie Josh) COULD also move in the summer if today's press reports are to be believed.

 

[Canary Rob]

No problem RBF and we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one then.

I've just gone through the players SW/DF have signed and given them MY rating/comment based on what I've witnessed.

Husband - C -- Hasn't played very regularly due to the likes of Lewis and when he has played, not terribly impressed.
Zimmerman - A+ -- Struggled at first, but has been a first team regular for many months and isn't afraid to get blocks in.
Franke - D -- Hasn't shown any potential, so loaned out
Hanley - As Zimmerman
Raggett - No rating, as I haven't seen him play
Trybull - A++ -- Has shown real flashes of excellence and can only improve with pre season etc. Recently signed a new contract
Vrancic - B+ -- Struggled to get to come to terms with the Championship, but recent performances have shown vast improvement
Leitner - A** -- Likely that he will only be at CR until the end of the season, but in the few months he's been here,has shown real flashed of what he's capable of. Really feel that he'll move on in the summer along with JM!!
Stiepermann - C -- Again, has had very little game time, due to other players being better than him. Haven't seen him play.
Hernandez - A -- Haven't seen much of him, but shows real promise (when not injured!!)
SirBenny - A -- A very recent acquisition, but has shown that he can at least get SOME of his shots on target. Another player who'll benefit who can only improve with pre season etc.
Apologies if I've missed anyone out

Edit - These are ONLY my views, but I'd JUST like to say that I spotted JM's talent in pre season 2016-2017!!!
PS - The other JM (ie Josh) COULD also move in the summer if today's press reports are to be believed.

I generally agree with this. Some of the scores are a bit high for my liking, but essentially he has a 75% hit rate for B-rated or better.

I reckon if you went through the transfer records of Ferguson, Wenger, Pochettino and the like their hit rate for signings would be lower (probably significantly) than that.

 

[carrowcanario]

Add Murphy to the list of possible outs. If they watch all his games, they may not be so keen, I doubt also that we could get anything approaching the £12m reported for Jacob. Played in the correct way, I would love him to stay, but if Farke wants him to often be more central, then we should take the money and find another Henandez.

Bah!

I'd be happy for Murphy to go if we got a decent offer, one goal a season doesn't make. For much of this season he's been lacking in many areas, but for me his decision making is something that hasn't improved all season.

 

[carrowcanario]

Afternoon General - I did actually write "at least" one out of every three players, and I was being cautious and generous at the time, so´s not to ruffle too many feathers. I think I could probably have said two out of every three we brought in have been under par, without any fear of recrimination. In fact from where I´ve been following, isn´t Zimmermann the only one who's really impressed on a weekly basis?

Yeah Trybull, Read & Gunn have been rubbish all season and Vrancic hasn't shown any sign of adjusting to this league. Of course the signing of Hanley and the ousting of Martin was a massive mistake and shows DF knows nothing.

 

[General Melchett]

I'm definitely not in agreement with these marks. I don't see how you can give so many scores of C and above, we have struggled to midtable having been seriously over reliant on one player. Maddison, Gunn and Hanley at a push might get A's.

Husband - C -- Hasn't played very regularly due to the likes of Lewis and when he has played, not terribly impressed.
E - Seriously poor to start, not much better now, totally in the shadow of Lewis
Zimmerman - A+ -- Struggled at first, but has been a first team regular for many months and isn't afraid to get blocks in.
C+ after a shaky start looks decent, Still prone to the odd slip and like the rest of the defence looks poor without Tettey and/or a 3rd man in central defence.
Franke - D -- Hasn't shown any potential, so loaned out
E - only saved from a G by the fact that most of his chances came before Tettey and a couple with Martin, all of our CB's struggled in similar circumstances
Hanley - As Zimmerman
B+ Offers leadership, fewer mistakes and more steel than our other CB's but even with him we try to attack and we look too vulnerable at the back. It's not like we're in the playoffs due to our doubty defence!
Raggett - No rating, as I haven't seen him play
Trybull - A++ -- Has shown real flashes of excellence and can only improve with pre season etc. Recently signed a new contract
Seriously!! B for his flashes of excellence, no more because when Tettey disappeared from the team so did his influence.
Vrancic - B+ -- Struggled to get to come to terms with the Championship, but recent performances have shown vast improvement
C - considering he is mainly a creative/facilitative player we have not scored enough goals for him or any attacker except Madders to get a better score than B. much improved, but he was coming from a seriously low base.
Leitner - A** -- Likely that he will only be at CR until the end of the season, but in the few months he's been here,has shown real flashed of what he's capable of. Really feel that he'll move on in the summer along with JM!!
See Vrancic above, only started well but we still weren't winning or scoring
Stiepermann - C -- Again, has had very little game time, due to other players being better than him. Haven't seen him play.
D - adequate stand in at LB helped us out in a bind, but shown nothing so far to suggest he will play a part next season
Hernandez - A -- Haven't seen much of him, but shows real promise (when not injured!!)
C+ shows promise but how many goals assists and appearances has he managed?
SirBenny - A -- A very recent acquisition, but has shown that he can at least get SOME of his shots on target. Another player who'll benefit who can only improve with pre season etc.
An A for 1 goal and a series of performances that have so far indicated he hasn't made the step up?
D - looks short of the necessary quality to thrive at this level. though is improving very slightly, could improve his grade if given time, but if he is our first choice at the beginning of next season we are bang in trouble.

Apologies if I've missed anyone out

If you're including Lietner, a loanee then why not the others?
A - Gunn, few mistakes and performances that are exceptional considering his lack of front line experience.
U - Edwards, one day maybe but sounds like attitude and or application ain't good.

Thats my take on them anyway

Bah!