Work In Progress?

[royalbarclayfan]

From what I've heard/read, it seems the majority of fans are pretty divided and this article really hits the nail on the head - http://norwichcity.myfootballwriter...at-and-does-it-have-to-mean-little-enjoyment/

Yep, I´ve already posted it, if you hadn´t noticed.

 

[JM Fan]

Yep, I´ve already posted it, if you hadn´t noticed.

 

[ncgandy]

Well, I prefer untried / untested to second-rate, which is just plain rude and unfair. How about Naismith and the Winkel, who were apparently tried / tested, and took us nowhere at a cost of around £17 million smackers.
We buy cheap because that's what our finances dictate. Suck it up.
Next year, with the Maddison money spent wisely (you never know!) is when I'll decide where we are. Fans always expect things to happen overnight - how rarely that happens.

 

[JM Fan]

Well, I prefer untried / untested to second-rate, which is just plain rude and unfair. How about Naismith and the Winkel, who were apparently tried / tested, and took us nowhere at a cost of around £17 million smackers.
We buy cheap because that's what our finances dictate. Suck it up.
Next year, with the Maddison money spent wisely (you never know!) is when I'll decide where we are. Fans always expect things to happen overnight - how rarely that happens.

Compare Liverpool/Citeh this season to their exploits last season.

Edit - So, some more wise words from another MFW columnist - http://norwichcity.myfootballwriter...ads-but-we-must-remain-loyal-to-webber-farke/
IMO, his last couple of sentences sums it all up brilliantly - However, at such a critical stage in determining the club’s long-term future, now is the time for unity not division, trust rather than scepticism, and optimism not pessimism. You never know, with a small dose of patience, things may even work out for the best.
Something ALL posters on this forum should heed!!!!

 

[JM Fan]

The stats from last night's CL game, which shows that despite all of Citeh's possession, they didn't muster ONE shot on target (yes, I know they had a goal ruled out for offside -

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[royalbarclayfan]

Well, I prefer untried / untested to second-rate, which is just plain rude and unfair. How about Naismith and the Winkel, who were apparently tried / tested, and took us nowhere at a cost of around £17 million smackers.
We buy cheap because that's what our finances dictate. Suck it up.
Next year, with the Maddison money spent wisely (you never know!) is when I'll decide where we are. Fans always expect things to happen overnight - how rarely that happens.

Morning gandy - Well I hope your faith in how that money will be spent, is justified, I´m afraid I can only see it being put aside to pay off any future debt. And yes, you´re absolutely right about Naismith and Wolf, they didn´t come off, but in general, you do still get what you pay for.

 

[carrowcanario]

Personally JM, I´ve got nothing against trying a new approach, but when Webber was given carte blanche and had the chance to appoint a head coach capable of getting us up and running, he then opts for a second rate German, who subsequently brings in second rate German players, you do begin to wonder just where we are headed. It´s pretty flimsy on Webber´s part, and all on the basis of one lucky stab with David Wagner. It´s a bit like everything else - you buy cheap ,second rate goods, you get cheap, second rate quality.

Time may prove that he was justified, but until/if he is, I remain verý sceptical.

Not that I would use the term second rate, but

1) Financially we cant afford the better & it's hardly worked well for us when we have splashed the cash i.e. Naismith, Van Winkel or bought ? quality i.e Hooper, Fer. I'm sure if DF had more money then he would have bought better players, maybe even 1st rate German one's, but he like everyone has to live within the budget.

2) Better second rate German's than third rate Scots, much rather have Zimmerman than Martin in the team or Maddison instead of Naismith. Martin was our main stay CB 12 months ago, now he can't even cut it in the Scottish league. The last time we had to buy second rate players it worked out pretty well for us, i.e. Holt.

3) Also the last time we had a virtually unknown coach with a background in German football, Lambert, that also worked out pretty well for us. Yes I know he was succesful in his first year, but that was in league 1, who's to say what would have happended if he'd have joined us in the Championship.

4) Players take time to adapt to new leagues / environments, at least if some of them don't work out then they won't break the bank and it'll only take a couple to make the grade to cover the financial cost of all of them.

I have had the impression from the start that you are against a new approach because it seems, as suggested by your posts on this and other topics, you'd much rather keep the cosy status quo, for you 'little old Norwich' seems to be the destination of choice rather than a place to get out of.

SW & DF have less than a year, that's hardly enough time to change a, lunatics are running the asylum' culture within a football club that has been stuck in it's ways for many years.

 

[JM Fan]

Well said canario and I'd far rather the approach we now have to try and 'make a silk purse out of a sow's ear' (Grant Holt being a PRIME example), than throwing money at the problem as Wolves have done. As I've said previously, the only 'failure' I've seen among our 2nd rate Germans has been Franke, whilst I'm sure that RBF and BB would concede that Zimmerman and Trybull, represent excellent investment (ESPECIALLY when you consider that Trybull was FREE).

I was beginning to wonder if DF could turn things around, but reading through some of the posts on here and on here and on MFW, I'm 'nailing my colours firmly to the SW/DF mast!!!'

 

[Forgot_My_Lines]

Well, now that the ire of Monday's hideous defeat has subsided (for most of us I hope), I think it's time to draw your attention to this worthwhile article by Andy Head n MFW. Of course we could have gone down the well-trodden path of bringing a manager/head coach with experience of English football etc, but would things have been any better - perhaps in the short term they would, but I'm in complete with this article and nearly ALL of the comments that follow it.
http://norwichcity.myfootballwriter...me-old-and-not-even-trying-a-different-route/

By all means if your still not happy with the route being taken by SW/DF keep posting to that effect (DD/FML seem to be the ones shouting the loudest that they would prefer Big Mick/A N Other), but I still believe that we had to try something different, even though there is NO guarantee of it succeeding.
I see McClean had an excellent performance against Motherwell last night and I'll remain QUIETLY optimistic re next season up until the results of the first 10 games are in at least!!!!

Bit hurt by that.

I don't think I am as aggressively against the club and board as a lot on here. I've never called Delia to quit, or the board to leave or anything. I have just said about how this club is now run and recruiting and the results its getting. Yes, I'm saying negative things. But....What are the positive things? We have earned multi millions, we have sold our best players for millions. But we need to beg for fans to give money so we don't need to have porta cabins for training.

Says it all. Our club is run by incompetents. We already noticed on the pitch, and now it is showing externally.

 

[royalbarclayfan]

Not that I would use the term second rate, but

1) Financially we cant afford the better & it's hardly worked well for us when we have splashed the cash i.e. Naismith, Van Winkel or bought ? quality i.e Hooper, Fer. I'm sure if DF had more money then he would have bought better players, maybe even 1st rate German one's, but he like everyone has to live within the budget.

2) Better second rate German's than third rate Scots, much rather have Zimmerman than Martin in the team or Maddison instead of Naismith. Martin was our main stay CB 12 months ago, now he can't even cut it in the Scottish league. The last time we had to buy second rate players it worked out pretty well for us, i.e. Holt.

3) Also the last time we had a virtually unknown coach with a background in German football, Lambert, that also worked out pretty well for us. Yes I know he was succesful in his first year, but that was in league 1, who's to say what would have happended if he'd have joined us in the Championship.

4) Players take time to adapt to new leagues / environments, at least if some of them don't work out then they won't break the bank and it'll only take a couple to make the grade to cover the financial cost of all of them.

I have had the impression from the start that you are against a new approach because it seems, as suggested by your posts on this and other topics, you'd much rather keep the cosy status quo, for you 'little old Norwich' seems to be the destination of choice rather than a place to get out of.

SW & DF have less than a year, that's hardly enough time to change a, lunatics are running the asylum' culture within a football club that has been stuck in it's ways for many years.

Nothing has changed, as regards the way I feel about the Club, canario. I´ve never been aversed to trying something new, and nor was I opposed to this new structure. The fact that it so far has done nothing to encourage me in the slightest, is neither here nor there, and I shall continue to wait for some positive signs. What I am sceptical about, is the personnel Webber decided to appoint, and while they remain in place, I shall continue to have serious doubts as to the wisdom of those decisions. As for the ´Little ol´Norwich´ epithet, it´s never bothered me in the slightest that others see us as such, because let´s face it, in a lot of people´s eyes, and in a lot of respects, we are. It´s not something I would choose for the Club, but until we prove that we are better than that, it´s hard to make out a case that we´re not. and I´m afraid we´re going to have to live with it. That´s also one of the reasons I´m not particularly attracted by the Premier League, the thought of us getting mauled each week, does not exactly appeal, and while we continue to struggle to even hold our heads above water in the Championship, any thoughts of a future in the Premier League, should be put on hold, as they seem seriously misplaced - let´s prove we can cope in the Championship first.

 

[DHCanary]

Our club is run by incompetents. We already noticed on the pitch, and now it is showing externally.

The only correction I'd make to that is "the club were run by incompetents, the jury is currently weighing up the current management (on the pitch and off)".

Pre-Webber/Farke, we were wasting obscene sums of money. We don't need to go through that again. And when Webber came in, the piggy bank just contained an IOU. It's unfair to blame Webber for the mismanagement that came before him, and that he's trying to rectify. Crowdfunding the academy looks desperate, but is a sign of how tough things are financially. Imagine the uproar if that money had come from the playing budget!

Whether alongside fixing the finances he can build a promotion-challenging side, we shall see. I don't think it was ever going to be achieved this season, but we definitely need to show progression after the summer.

 

[SuffolkCanary]

I just think we have to be realistic about this season, we have had to make wholesale changes to players and staff across the club, which I think many will agree was necessary. To expect to stroll into the play-offs/automatic positions after all those changes and against teams with far more financial clout than an us is a little unfair.

I know lightning may not strike twice but look how Huddersfield did in Wagner's first year in charge, after a similar rebuilding job and now look where they are, in the PL and able to buy one of our best talents from us.

I didn't expect to be doing anything this season, obviously if there isn't an improvement next season then the manager will not have been the man for the job, but I don't believe that the approach we have taken to changes around the club including playing staff has been wrong. Angus Gunn, Grant Hanley, Cristoph Zimmermann, Tom Trybull, Moritz Leitner, Mario Vrancic, Ola Hernandez are hardly second rate and arguably all have the potential to grow.

 

[Forgot_My_Lines]

I just think we have to be realistic about this season, we have had to make wholesale changes to players and staff across the club, which I think many will agree was necessary. To expect to stroll into the play-offs/automatic positions after all those changes and against teams with far more financial clout than an us is a little unfair.

I know lightning may not strike twice but look how Huddersfield did in Wagner's first year in charge, after a similar rebuilding job and now look where they are, in the PL and able to buy one of our best talents from us.

I didn't expect to be doing anything this season, obviously if there isn't an improvement next season then the manager will not have been the man for the job, but I don't believe that the approach we have taken to changes around the club including playing staff has been wrong. Angus Gunn, Grant Hanley, Cristoph Zimmermann, Tom Trybull, Moritz Leitner, Mario Vrancic, Ola Hernandez are hardly second rate and arguably all have the potential to grow.

We were still getting the parachute money this season, for the last season. That's what really hurts. We spent nothing and sold stars, bought in players for very little. At least half of which look awful. We have acted like a club that have just come up from league 1. But we had parachute money and sold our best players. They keep telling us next season will be hard because the parachute payments stop. It seems like we have never had them. How can we operate any more budget than this season, but still people talk about progress? We keep getting told next season will be the bad one. Like this season we have had it so good.

It worries me that the club are telling us the tough times are coming next season when the payments stop. But still we are making massive progress. As if none of them have watched a single game this season.

 

[JM Fan]

We were still getting the parachute money this season, for the last season. That's what really hurts. We spent nothing and sold stars, bought in players for very little. At least half of which look awful. We have acted like a club that have just come up from league 1. But we had parachute money and sold our best players. They keep telling us next season will be hard because the parachute payments stop. It seems like we have never had them. How can we operate any more budget than this season, but still people talk about progress? We keep getting told next season will be the bad one. Like this season we have had it so good.

It worries me that the club are telling us the tough times are coming next season when the payments stop. But still we are making massive progress. As if none of them have watched a single game this season.

Ok FML I'll agree that the 'parachute money' appears to have disappeared into thin air,, but I'll have to challenge you on the other 2 comments
You say that - we sold all our best players. ALL the players who have left since SW/DF have been in charge WANTED to leave - Howson, Murphy, Jerome and Pritchard
At least half of the players who have been signed look awful - I accept that Franke and Watkins are awful, but that leaves Hanley, Zimmerman, Trybull and Leitner, Hernandez (when he's fit!) who regularly play well - IMO, the jurysj out on SirBenny.

 

[DHCanary]

I don't understand where this idea that "the parachute payments have disappeared" has come from. We know exactly where they've gone, they've been wasted paying exorbitant wages to dross, or committed to paying the transfer fees that brought them here in the first place.

Our wage bill last season was colossal, and this season it's still far too high, with large sums completely wasted on the likes of Naismith and Jarvis. The club are now doing what they can to address this mismanagement, but fundamentally we have to write off ~£1.5m a year for this season and the same amount next season, because Jarvis has a contract we have to honour. That pattern is repeated throughout the squad like a millstone around the club's neck, and is why there's no money for anything else.