Off Topic The Politics Thread

[bobmid]

That's me outta this one. Enjoy lads and lasses.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

That's me outta this one. Enjoy lads and lasses.

Not a bad series of inputs for somebody that doesn’t follow politics.

 

[bobmid]

Not a bad series of inputs for somebody that doesn’t follow politics.

It comes down to common sense Uber. Some get fooled and embroiled in the circus, some see through it.

 

[Stroller]

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One year till we fall off the cliff.

 

[ELLERS]

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One year till we fall off the cliff.

You mean one year to freedom. A year until we don't have to listen to unelected muppets in Brussels (unless they extend it).

 

[ELLERS]

That's me outta this one. Enjoy lads and lasses.

I am sure we will be joining you in the near future bob. It seems the same old things are being regurgitated. Even me who is a 'brextard' cant be bothered to debate as it's over and we need to move on.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

On your insight into his thinking. Just came across as you knowing him well.

No one needs to know a politician personally, Bob, before he or she can comment on him!

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

First point of thought is regarding 'it's in our DNA'. I wonder whether that's true, or if it's a case of society perpetuating behaviour. Immoral, criminal behaviour or that which drives us to put ourselves before others, as you say, can be seen throughout history, regardless of the structures in place. What drives that behaviour? I'd suggest the desire to either simply survive or, in some cases, to obtain as much power and wealth as possible, at the expense of others.

We know that the planet could provide us with all the energy we need from solar, wind, wave, tidal, thermal etc power. All totally renewable, no negative environmental effects.

We know that we can provide enough food for the entire population of the world, with no negative effect.

We know that we can provide enough clean water for everyone through desalinisation, with no negative effect.

Resources are abundant, and continually sustainable, scarcity is unnecessary. Poverty, starvation, war and division are choices.

The common theme preventing all of the above is money.

Once energy needs are met, there is no longer a problem that requires a solution and hence, no profit to be made.

Once scarcity evaporates, there is no longer a market in which to be competitive, hence, no profit.

If there is no longer an opportunity to make a profit at the expense of someone else's perpetual debt, what is the need for money?

Everything we need still exists, demand and supply are equal and cause no detriment to the planet.

The waving goodbye to money sees with it the disappearance of vast amounts of crime, caused by inequality, the need to put yourself before the rest, there's enough for everyone, the need for such governance as we see today, we operate as a unified planet, with no pursuit of power and wealth, it no longer exists.

Ideas of technological advance are voted for, rather than individuals with mental health issues and delusions of superiority and the need for dominance.

Over generations, the 'it's in our DNA' argument is never mentioned again as the nurturing, higher stage society we've created sees us go from strength to strength as a civilisation, whilst technology frees us from mundane tasks exchanged for the privilege of simply surviving.

We are free to explore our individual and collective potential, with no danger to our very existence, but only in a world where we reject the man made concept of money.

Lots to think about there, Woody. I'll comment shortly.

 

[seagullhoop]

Just had my mate on the phone moaning that his plans to travel to Paris today have been disrupted due to a strike by public sector workers and their opposition to Labour reforms.....gosh, I thought it was a utopia of joy over there.
Seems not

Nothing is a utopia, but the right to protest against poor conditions has remorselessly been diminished in this country, workers rights have been eroded, the number of workers on the minimum wage is expected to double in the next 2 years and a million UK citizens are already on a zero hours contract with no expectation of a pay packet at the end of the week.

But 'blue passports'...

 

[seagullhoop]

I have said before the Irish border is a big problem but will be resolved. Don't ask me how as I don't know but the Tories now seem confident that they can resolve.
On another note, The Spanish leader was supposed to be kicking up a fuss regarding Gibraltar and after a few words from the EU leaders he went back under his stone. Another problem sorted. It is becoming apparent that the EU is starting to back down on certain things.

The Tories have been 'confident' about a lot of things... and then conceded on all of them. No reason to think they won't do the same on Ireland - but that's not the same as finding or negotiating a resolution.

 

[QPR Oslo]

Nothing is a utopia, but the right to protest against poor conditions has remorselessly been diminished in this country, workers rights have been eroded, the number of workers on the minimum wage is expected to double in the next 2 years and a million UK citizens are already on a zero hours contract with no expectation of a pay packet at the end of the week.

But 'blue passports'...

I read somewhere those blue passports will be made by a French company as they submitted by far the lowest bid. DaveT news maybe.

 

[seagullhoop]

I have no love or hate for Corbyn but let me get this right.....if I can. He speaks out against antisemitism in his party. Surely better than backing it. He says the Russian incident points to Russia but it still has to be proven. Again totally sensible in my opinion. Now as stated before, I don't know him so therfore can't comment on whether he's saying something but thinking something else. I can comment on the words hes factually quoted before some media outlet twists it to something he didn't actually say. Then the foolish 'us' read what we want to read and believe what we want to believe. It happens all the bloody time. It's quite boring, condescnding and blatantly making untruths a headline to suit an agenda.

All seems eminently reasonable... makes one wonder why the maintream media are stepping up their game against any 'opposition'

Disagree with their position on Brexit... you are a traitor or saboteur.

Threaten their grip on power... and even if you have a 40 year history as an anti-racist you will be portrayed as an anti-semite.

Reasonably question their statements on the Russia and you are a spy.

Makes you wonder what they are so worried about.

...and then Saint Theresa suddenly decides to put more cash into the NHS after (literally) years of underfunding and then Hunt, the chief architect and agitator, claims it was his idea after all... weird.

I doubt there is any Machiavellian reason for it - she's probably just seen the light... and has totally forgotten about the upcoming local elections.

 

[seagullhoop]

I read somewhere those blue passports will be made by a French company as they submitted by far the lowest bid. DaveT news maybe.

Seems fair.

Some people only like the free market when they benefit from it... much like the views on the EU and Brexit.

Happy to take - no happy to give in return.

 

[ELLERS]

Seems fair.

Some people only like the free market when they benefit from it... much like the views on the EU and Brexit.

Happy to take - no happy to give in return.

I think most Brexitiers don't have a problem of where the passports are made. The French/Dutch is only one part of the passport and It's completed with the security stuff in the UK. The deal was better by the other companies Can you imagine if they had gone for the higher bid? This story is only being mentioned by Remoaners who need a last-ditch argument because they have lost.
Look at it this way Do you really believe the England shirts or probably QPR tops are made a some shop in Shepherds Bush? No they are probably made in India or China.
People need to move on FFS.

 

[kiwiqpr]

I think most Brexitiers don't have a problem of where the passports are made. The French/Dutch is only one part of the passport and It's completed with the security stuff in the UK. The deal was better by the other companies Can you imagine if they had gone for the higher bid? This story is only being mentioned by Remoaners who need a last-ditch argument because they have lost.
Look at it this way Do you really believe the England shirts or probably QPR tops are made a some shop in Shepherds Bush? No they are probably made in India or China.
People need to move on FFS.

i thought all QPRs shirts were made on a stall in shepherds bush market

 

[durbar2003]

i thought all QPRs shirts were made on a stall in shepherds bush market

No, they were only sold from a stall in Shepherds Bush Market.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

First point of thought is regarding 'it's in our DNA'. I wonder whether that's true, or if it's a case of society perpetuating behaviour. Immoral, criminal behaviour or that which drives us to put ourselves before others, as you say, can be seen throughout history, regardless of the structures in place. What drives that behaviour? I'd suggest the desire to either simply survive or, in some cases, to obtain as much power and wealth as possible, at the expense of others.

We know that the planet could provide us with all the energy we need from solar, wind, wave, tidal, thermal etc power. All totally renewable, no negative environmental effects.

We know that we can provide enough food for the entire population of the world, with no negative effect.

We know that we can provide enough clean water for everyone through desalinisation, with no negative effect.

Resources are abundant, and continually sustainable, scarcity is unnecessary. Poverty, starvation, war and division are choices.

The common theme preventing all of the above is money.

Once energy needs are met, there is no longer a problem that requires a solution and hence, no profit to be made.

Once scarcity evaporates, there is no longer a market in which to be competitive, hence, no profit.

If there is no longer an opportunity to make a profit at the expense of someone else's perpetual debt, what is the need for money?

Everything we need still exists, demand and supply are equal and cause no detriment to the planet.

The waving goodbye to money sees with it the disappearance of vast amounts of crime, caused by inequality, the need to put yourself before the rest, there's enough for everyone, the need for such governance as we see today, we operate as a unified planet, with no pursuit of power and wealth, it no longer exists.

Ideas of technological advance are voted for, rather than individuals with mental health issues and delusions of superiority and the need for dominance.

Over generations, the 'it's in our DNA' argument is never mentioned again as the nurturing, higher stage society we've created sees us go from strength to strength as a civilisation, whilst technology frees us from mundane tasks exchanged for the privilege of simply surviving.

We are free to explore our individual and collective potential, with no danger to our very existence, but only in a world where we reject the man made concept of money.

There's plenty in your post to aspire to, Woody. Better use of energy, worldwide distribution of food resources and clean water. Agree with all of that, and add clean up the environment, land and sea. I'm sure these are aims which the United Nations and its subsidiaries spend every day trying to resolve (and although sadly, it's a pretty ineffective body, it's all we've got on a worldwide basis)

Poverty, starvation, war, division - you blame it all on money. That's highly simplistic - what you're proposing is an extreme form of communism. But when has communism or even extreme socialism ever worked? - C20th Russia? North Korea? Cambodia? How many civilians ever tried to escape from America to get to Cuba? Have a look at Venezuela's economy now. Even China has turned itself around economically by adopting capitalism. Remember Orwell's Animal Farm - All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others. As for exporting worldwide resources, look what was happening recently on a small scale by Oxfam's workers in Guatemala. Funds used to blackmail women and children into having sex with charity workers.

If capitalism is to work, it has to inspire working people, allowing them the freedom to realise their aspirations. But it has to have a heart, there has to be philanthropy. A man who dies rich, dies disgraced - Andrew Carnegie.

Your dream of no money may be realised one day, Woody. Perhaps a millennium hence. The starting place will be to stop all wars. Civilisation isn't making a good job of that at present. And there are more causes than simply money and profit.

 

[Goldhawk-Road]

I have no love or hate for Corbyn but let me get this right.....if I can. He speaks out against antisemitism in his party. Surely better than backing it. He says the Russian incident points to Russia but it still has to be proven. Again totally sensible in my opinion. Now as stated before, I don't know him so therfore can't comment on whether he's saying something but thinking something else. I can comment on the words hes factually quoted before some media outlet twists it to something he didn't actually say. Then the foolish 'us' read what we want to read and believe what we want to believe. It happens all the bloody time. It's quite boring, condescnding and blatantly making untruths a headline to suit an agenda.

1. Corbyn's rebuttals on antisemitism are mealy mouthed. Antisemitism has flourished in the Labour Party under his leadership, and there are numerous examples that have already been put up on this thread. Rather than facing Left Wing antisemitism honestly, he has just made a speech blaming...Right Wing fascists. He shows no sign that he is dealing with this problem, I would suggest because, in support of his Palestinian brothers he either does not believe in the state of Israel, or believes it should be heavily condemned. This has led him to tolerate the hating of Jews in the Labour Party, sometimes by Muslim party members. And I don't need to know Corbyn personally to form this view.

1. Russia - Corbyn's an apologist for communist Russia and always has been. John McDonnell admits he's a Marxist. I've said before on this thread, you do not always have DNA or video evidence for every crime of this type. Circumstantial evidence is sufficient, and this applies in an English Criminal Court too. And look at the way Russia reacted to allegations. Sarcasm, joking, comparing British intelligence forces with Inspector Poirot. They've never once expressed real concern.

Your allegation of fake news against Corbyn may have worked if you chose one or two media outlets that might have a bias against him. But it's hollow when it's all outlets (as supported by moderate members of the Labour Party), save for those extreme publications like the Socialist Worker that are willfully blind to Corbyn's shortcomings and explain away claims of antisemitism as malicious personal attacks on Corbyn.

 

[bobmid]

1. Corbyn's rebuttals on antisemitism are mealy mouthed. Antisemitism has flourished in the Labour Party under his leadership, and there are numerous examples that have already been put up on this thread. Rather than facing Left Wing antisemitism honestly, he has just made a speech blaming...Right Wing fascists. He shows no sign that he is dealing with this problem, I would suggest because, in support of his Palestinian brothers he either does not believe in the state of Israel, or believes it should be heavily condemned. This has led him to tolerate the hating of Jews in the Labour Party, sometimes by Muslim party members. And I don't need to know Corbyn personally to form this view.

1. Russia - Corbyn's an apologist for communist Russia and always has been. John McDonnell admits he's a Marxist. I've said before on this thread, you do not always have DNA or video evidence for every crime of this type. Circumstantial evidence is sufficient, and this applies in an English Criminal Court too. And look at the way Russia reacted to allegations. Sarcasm, joking, comparing British intelligence forces with Inspector Poirot. They've never once expressed real concern.

Your allegation of fake news against Corbyn may have worked if you chose one or two media outlets that might have a bias against him. But it's hollow when it's all outlets (as supported by moderate members of the Labour Party), save for those extreme publications like the Socialist Worker that are willfully blind to Corbyn's shortcomings and explain away claims of antisemitism as malicious personal attacks on Corbyn.

Neither a Corbyn fan or non fan but are there any FACTS in your post?? or just opinions or what somebody else said about someone etc etc
It' all bollocks

 

[bobmid]

Neither a Corbyn fan or non fan but are there any FACTS in your post?? or just opinions or what somebody else said about someone etc etc
It' all bollocks

I don't mean your post is bollocks I mean in general