Off Topic Time more people spoke out

[Mind the gap!]

Anyone notice that MTG started this thread and has not commented?

Think he’s trying to rile a few people up here.

Wasn’t expecting so many rapid replies. Guess everyone has got too much spare time compared to me haha.

The Clegg/ Blair comment was put in to get a nibble but my point about leaving being a bad thing remains.

Everything I’ve seen since the referendum has made me more convinced that leaving is going to be worse and worse.

I think it is reasonable to have a legally binding referendum on whether to stay or go under the deal or no deal we have. Once everyone knows the details of it people can make a more informed choice and hopefully the complacement no voters will show up this time.

 

[BCFCRob]

What isn't up for debate as it's fact is that we live in a parliamentary democracy , i won't patronise you by explaining what that means , but it certainly doesn't mean what you quote as democracy , but that's irrelevant as like I've explained several times , but you don't seem to grasp this was not an election it was a binary referendum, as I've also explained we previously had one regarding Europe and abode by the result , that's the whole point , once you start picking and chosing which result you accept and which one you don't it's a slippery slope.

I know what a ****ing Parliamentary Democracy is . I don't think it's my head that anything is passing over.

Just because it's a referendum doesn't mean that you go 100% in on the result. Any sensible being considers both sides and the ratio of split. And I'd love for you to tell me where I'm picking and choosing the result! Leave won, I haven't once disputed that! Making stuff up now.

Buzzing for Corbyn to win the next election by 1 seat. I trust I'll have all of you guys supporting giving Labour every seat in the House of Commons as after all, 'democracy' will have spoken! Give them everything!

Ok, give a reasonable explanation of how you would appease the 48% in this process, you have agreed we need to leave, I have explained that the EU will not allow us to leave and remain in the free trade agreement and customs union and as that is the 2 main issues on which everybody voted, I am interested to understand how you think any government could resolve that?

Well this is it. It's pretty damn difficult I completely agree. But that wasn't the debate. If there wasn't anything to be conceded and gained then why are we even having negotiations if it's that simple? Of course there are concessions that can be made, though not necessarily with any ease.

 

[AshtonRed]

I know what a ****ing Parliamentary Democracy is . I don't think it's my head that anything is passing over.

Just because it's a referendum doesn't mean that you go 100% in on the result. Any sensible being considers both sides and the ratio of split. And I'd love for you to tell me where I'm picking and choosing the result! Leave won, I haven't once disputed that! Making stuff up now.

Buzzing for Corbyn to win the next election by 1 seat. I trust I'll have all of you guys supporting giving Labour every seat in the House of Commons as after all, 'democracy' will have spoken! Give them everything!



Well this is it. It's pretty damn difficult I completely agree. But that wasn't the debate. If there wasn't anything to be conceded and gained then why are we even having negotiations if it's that simple? Of course there are concessions that can be made, though not necessarily with any ease.

You say you understand parliamentary democracy and then suggest Corbyn has every seat in House of Commons if he wins by 1 seat . As previously suggested you don't understand parliamentary democracy , oh and by the way can't think of anything better than Corbyn winning next time. Do you know his views on Europe . He's never been in favour by the way

 

[Red Robin]

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[banksyisourhero]

But that wasn't the debate

It is completely the debate.. and its a waste of time having it with you.

Happy new year Rob, you are a nice kid and I would happily buy you a pint.

 

[banksyisourhero]

I think it is reasonable to have a legally binding referendum on whether to stay or go under the deal or no deal we have. Once everyone knows the details of it people can make a more informed choice and hopefully the complacement no voters will show up this time

You have contradicted yourself in one paragraph.

 

[AshtonRed]

Our problem with this process is we have a weak leader who completely ballsed up by calling an election, she was woeful in the campaign and is now having to negotiate with losers who now have way more say than they should have.

She thought she would get a larger majority in Parliament, which would have strengthened her hand in the negotiations, in reality she was sh_te in the election, and the reverse happens , smaller majority in Parliament Weakened her negotiating ability and , as you rightly say having to appease people in her own party as she needs their votes.

 

[Red Alert]

It's nothing to do with losing the debate. The fact is my viewpoint is closer to a representative democracy than yours is. Without meaning to sound too arrogant, that's beyond opinion, that's fact. Allowing a small majority to dictate the entire policy is in no way 'representative'.

The above is not really up for debate. What the debate is over is whether the 52% should have 100% of the decision-making or not, which is a fair debate to have.

There's no point going around in circles. Most of us want out, we're agreed in that. I just think if 48% of the population vote for something, (a staggering amount to be ignored I might add), they deserve a voice. But hey, that's just me. Regardless of whether it was a binary vote or not, ignoring 48% of the population entirely is close-minded to the point of recklessness.


It's 100% not meant as an insult. I just see that point of view as hypocritical. I'm not attempting to put anyone down or abuse - I just see a contradiction, so I state hypocrisy as a viewpoint and not as a disrespectful comment . It wasn't meant that way but I'm sure no one here was genuinely insulted by that comment.

I am in the camp that its your posts with all respect that are mind boggling. You appear to want some form of pr and that was never ever on the table. Two options with no third position that was it. The UK chose out.

 

[banksyisourhero]

I am in the camp that its your posts with all respect that are mind boggling. You appear to want some form of pr and that was never ever on the table. Two options with no third position that was it. The UK chose out.

It ain't gonna sink in..

 

[BCFCRob]

You say you understand parliamentary democracy and then suggest Corbyn has every seat in House of Commons if he wins by 1 seat . As previously suggested you don't understand parliamentary democracy , oh and by the way can't think of anything better than Corbyn winning next time. Do you know his views on Europe . He's never been in favour by the way

It was sarcasm mate. I know exactly what I'm talking about, even if we come to different conclusions. Trying to insinuate that I don't know how Parliament works is petty and shows you know nothing about me.

Anyway, you guys disagree with me. I stand by what I said, 48% of a population being ignored is not a fair outcome, nor is it representative. But arguments on Not606 are basically a daily occurrence these days, so we move on

 

[bcfcredandwhite]

I voted remain after searching in vain for some indication of what ‘leave’ would mean. I was pissed off with the EU but thought ‘better the devil you know’.
I’m pissed off and I think it was a mistake - not the people voting to leave, but the absence of any detail about what it would mean. We still don’t know. The EU cannot and will not allow Brexit to succeed.
However, the real villains are the absolutely useless Remain campaigners. They were so complacent that I am more angry with them than Farage and Johnson and all their utter bullshit.

Anyway, we lost and we will all have to live with it. Now I get pissed off with the stance of our weak pathetic government who are supposed to be negotiating on our behalf.
Tell the EU to do one and get out with a ‘hard’ Brexit. The longer we pussy around with negotiations the more time they have to move their banks to Paris or Frankfurt.
Don’t forget banking is 7.5% of our GDP however much we dislike bankers.

 

[AshtonRed]

I voted remain after searching in vain for some indication of what ‘leave’ would mean. I was pissed off with the EU but thought ‘better the devil you know’.
I’m pissed off and I think it was a mistake - not the people voting to leave, but the absence of any detail about what it would mean. We still don’t know. The EU cannot and will not allow Brexit to succeed.
However, the real villains are the absolutely useless Remain campaigners. They were so complacent that I am more angry with them than Farage and Johnson and all their utter bullshit.

Anyway, we lost and we will all have to live with it. Now I get pissed off with the stance of our weak pathetic government who are supposed to be negotiating on our behalf.
Tell the EU to do one and get out with a ‘hard’ Brexit. The longer we pussy around with negotiations the more time they have to move their banks to Paris or Frankfurt.
Don’t forget banking is 7.5% of our GDP however much we dislike bankers.

A perspective ide not really considered before.
I understand your point but there is no way we could know the details at the beginning, because we can't dictate the grounds of our departure , they have to be agreed with the EU & they wouldn't negotiate until we formally told them we wanted to leave , i.e. Invoked article 50.
I suppose we could now tell the EU to do one, but as i understand it we have to give 2 years notice once article 50 was invoked , so it's in the interest of both sides to make the best agreement for when we eventually split.
Of course once that time is up if we feel what they are offering is good enough we can still tell them 'to do one' , as you put it.

 

[Angelicnumber16]

Other than the issues of immigration and protecting our borders which was foremost in most peoples minds I suspect, plus the monumental sums of subscriptions we are still paying the EU to have their stupid beauracratic laws regarding Pork Pies and Cheese imposed upon us, there was never a really compelling other argument presented as to why we should leave.

 

[Red Alert]

It ain't gonna sink in..

I have seen the reply. I make you 100% right.

 

[oneforthebristolcity]

Had it been 52% to remain, there wouldn't be a discussion, we would have carried on as normal. But it's not and the country has voted out.
Game over.....we now need to get on with it.
We are in charge of our own destiny, we should take the best bits and drop the crap.....then we move on....simples!

 

[Cliftonville]

Other than the issues of immigration and protecting our borders which was foremost in most peoples minds I suspect, plus the monumental sums of subscriptions we are still paying the EU to have their stupid beauracratic laws regarding Pork Pies and Cheese imposed upon us, there was never a really compelling other argument presented as to why we should leave.

Leaving the EU creates opportunity for a world of change e,g. financial regulation, public ownership, public service delivery industrial strategy, state aid ... As far reaching and influencing as the impact of Thatcher and with the ability to turn back elements of Thatcherism.

The UK can have an entirely new economic and social structure.

 

[BCFCRob]

I have seen the reply. I make you 100% right.

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[Angelicnumber16]

Leaving the EU creates opportunity for a world of change e,g. financial regulation, public ownership, public service delivery industrial strategy, state aid ... As far reaching and influencing as the impact of Thatcher and with the ability to turn back elements of Thatcherism.

The UK can have an entirely new economic and social structure.

I agree and voted to leave from my own beliefs. I'm just saying that a lot of people were unsure.

 

[Cliftonville]

I agree and voted to leave from my own beliefs. I'm just saying that a lot of people were unsure.

A lot of people were unsure.

As a Labour supporter I find it ironic that many Labour supporting remainers supported membership of the EU, a membership which at best disadvantaged the Labour manifesto, and it worst makes it entirely undeliverable if Labour were the Government of an EU member... That was the compelling point behind my vote to leave.

 

[wizered]

I like the points that are being raised, what people forget the referendum was non political, it was leave or stay in, a lot of Tories voted stay in, a lot of Labour people voted out, Liberals, the Nationalist parties ( SNP, SinnFein,PlaidCymru) all just laid down and gave up, in actual fact the Cameron led Tory government strongly recommended we stay in.

Now the remoaners are saying it's a Tory government decision to leave , a complete lie manifested by the loathsome Blair, the out decision was made by the politically aware, intelligent, knowledgible and well informed majority of the UK people on independent grounds.

The government is following the instructions and will of the majority of British people and the majority vote in the House of Commons, from all sides of the political divide, don't believe the rhetoric of the known liar of the Iraq war and the treacherous, self seeking despot Blair, selling our nation short once again.