There are also a lot of high speed corners, and they inherently have more downforce than other teams so they can run a shallower wing to recover straightline speed. They'll struggle to match McLaren and Ferrari, but they won't be threatened by Mercedes, Force India etc.
The Official Not606 Belgian GP Chat & Predictions
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There are also a lot of high speed corners, and they inherently have more downforce than other teams so they can run a shallower wing to recover straightline speed. They'll struggle to match McLaren and Ferrari, but they won't be threatened by Mercedes, Force India etc.
Well, because of DRS I think RB will be closer than you think. There are some high speed corners so the "top" teams will put a bit of downforce on their cars which will obviously make them slower. If this was last year(not last years cars, this years but without DRS/KERS), RB would have no chance but now because of the toys I think they will be slightly closer and may get a lucky podium.
I think Red Bull have to set their car up for the race this weekend, not qualifying. Not so aggressive with 7th gear because there'll almost certainly be occasions where they need to pass and they don't want to be bouncing off the limiter down Kemmel again when trying to attack or defend.
Qualifying will still be important but not worth sacrificing race setup for, it's a track where the drivers can make a difference so if either Red Bull driver nails it they could be in contention for the win. I think Ferrari and McLaren will be strong this weekend though, the form Alonso's in he won't get beaten by a weaker car, so his threat will come from McLaren. I still think he'll come away with the win.
Spa has plenty of high speed corners where downforce is paramount. Consequently, Red Bull are not at a major disadvantage here, in my opinion.
Yes, the Mercedes engined cars (and Ferrari) will hold a better hand in some places: notably out of La Source and the long straight after Eau Rouge to the top at Les Combes; but through this previously most daunting corner itself, Red Bull's downforce will probably see them quickest. Malmedy and Rivage: advantage Red Bull. Shortly afterwards, the blast down to Pouhon will be a Mercedes strong-hold but Pouhon itself hands it all back to Red Bull, who will need to carry the advantage all the way to Stavelot and out of Turn 16 (with current regulations, we could see lots more action approaching Stavelot than in recent years). Soon after, it's back to Mercedes territory for the run to Blanchimont, but the final kink will be more frightening for them than Red Bull: easy flat in top gear.
Not Red Bull's strongest track. But their weaknesses are not too great to be offset with a good set-up and clever gearing. Don't count them out just yet!
[Edit: just seen AG's post which appeared after I started writing this. I notice that he too has spoken of set-up and gearing: quite right in my opinion!]
Yes, the Mercedes engined cars (and Ferrari) will hold a better hand in some places: notably out of La Source and the long straight after Eau Rouge to the top at Les Combes; but through this previously most daunting corner itself, Red Bull's downforce will probably see them quickest. Malmedy and Rivage: advantage Red Bull. Shortly afterwards, the blast down to Pouhon will be a Mercedes strong-hold but Pouhon itself hands it all back to Red Bull, who will need to carry the advantage all the way to Stavelot and out of Turn 16 (with current regulations, we could see lots more action approaching Stavelot than in recent years). Soon after, it's back to Mercedes territory for the run to Blanchimont, but the final kink will be more frightening for them than Red Bull: easy flat in top gear.
Not Red Bull's strongest track. But their weaknesses are not too great to be offset with a good set-up and clever gearing. Don't count them out just yet!
[Edit: just seen AG's post which appeared after I started writing this. I notice that he too has spoken of set-up and gearing: quite right in my opinion!]
Red Bull got pole here last year. (albeit with a better car than this year) Webber is in the better spot imo.
Red Bull wouldn't have had pole last year Lewis would have got it if he hadn't got too hot on the exit of Rivage and had it not rained in the final run stage because he put in a incredible effort to go P2 on a wet track and be only 85 thousandths off pole. Imagine what he would have done on a dry track? And also very interesting it was the middle sector where he got that P2 Lap from with a fast middle sector.
I think McLaren have a better car now and I won't be surprised if they win all the races into the end of the season.
I think McLaren have a better car now and I won't be surprised if they win all the races into the end of the season.
Have red bull run long gearing this season? Their car usually redlines at 298KMH, so i was just wondering if they have actually tried a more race based setting. For you tech types, would it somehow affect overall cornering performance if the car was geared a touch longer?
They've never really been bouncing off the limiter so I think they purely don't have the power and/or too much drag to go any faster. They could make 7th longer but then they'd have a wasted top end with reduced acceleration.
As for the corners, a longer gear shouldn't directly affect the car, but the way these things are so highly strung its bound to do something.
They've run short gearing. The difference between a race setup and quali setup gearing wise isn't necessarily dictated by top speed (which would require a longer gearing for qualifying) but where you want to be fast.
Gearing is a compromise between acceleration and top speed, so a shorter range gives you better in gear acceleration, but clips your top speed on long straights, i.e Red Bull reach 280km/h quickly but can't go much faster than that on longer straights. The upshot is that they're accelerating from corner to corner quicker, their car is geared for ultimate lap time rather than straightline speed.
This was okay when they were clear of the field, they could pull out of DRS range in the first two laps and then dictate from there. And another advantage is that on high fuel you're less likely to hit top speed and be punished for the shorter range, which further enabled them to sprint clear early on. A good example of this was Barcelona, McLaren's outright pace was largely down to the tyres, but on the pit straight you could see Hamilton closing faster and faster as the fuel loads came down and Vettel hit the limiter earlier on the straight.
Now they've been caught they'll be very vulnerable on the straights especially with DRS if they persist with short gearing. If they're under attack they'll find it very hard to defend, particularly on Kemmel with DRS, and if they're attacking another car it's difficult to get a run at them into the braking zone, and DRS becomes next to useless as Vettel found out trying to pass Massa at the Nurburgring.
Basically a qualifying setup focuses on outright lap times, while a race setup factors in that they may have to fight other cars on track, usually this is achieved through longer ratios. It seems a bit counterintuitive, similar to last year when they were under-fuelling the cars, it took them longer to complete the race distance but because overtaking was so difficult track position was king.
Somewhere like Monza with lots of long straights, a qualifying setup could use longer gears than a race setup because of the higher top speeds achievable on low fuel.
Weather according to the Beeb:
Friday- Thunder Storm
Saturday- Heavy Rain
Sunday- Sunny Intervals
Classic Spa weather, this should be a cracker!
Friday- Thunder Storm
Saturday- Heavy Rain
Sunday- Sunny Intervals
Classic Spa weather, this should be a cracker!
Saturday rain =====> wack out the Schumacher.
Is it allllllways Schuey with you? There are better wet weather drivers nowadays tbh...
Torro Rosso might be in trouble.
http://www.yallaf1.com/2011/08/24/toro-rosso-truck-badly-damaged-in-accident/
http://www.yallaf1.com/2011/08/24/toro-rosso-truck-badly-damaged-in-accident/
I am quite baffled that some 9 people have gone for Alonso. I don't see how he can win. For me It's gonna be a McLaren victory and possibly one-two. If fully wet the whole race then Hamilton, Wet to Dry then Button if fully dry then Hamilton.
As for Red Bull people talk about there downforce in then middle sector but I don't buy that one bit. Look at Hungary... A track last year where they were about 1.7 secs quicker than McLaren and about 1 second faster than Ferrari and then we arrive at qualifying and Vettel only gets pole by 1 tenths with Hamilton sure to have beaten it if not for the 2 mistakes. And in the race again McLaren fundamentally faster than Red Bull. Once Ferrari sort out there warm up issues they will be very much in the mix. At the moment the only reason the were 2nd and 3rd in Germany and Hungary is because they have brilliant driver.
Forecast Update : BBC giving us Thunder Storm for Friday, Heavy Rain for Saturday, Sunny Intervals for Sunday.
As for Red Bull people talk about there downforce in then middle sector but I don't buy that one bit. Look at Hungary... A track last year where they were about 1.7 secs quicker than McLaren and about 1 second faster than Ferrari and then we arrive at qualifying and Vettel only gets pole by 1 tenths with Hamilton sure to have beaten it if not for the 2 mistakes. And in the race again McLaren fundamentally faster than Red Bull. Once Ferrari sort out there warm up issues they will be very much in the mix. At the moment the only reason the were 2nd and 3rd in Germany and Hungary is because they have brilliant driver.
Forecast Update : BBC giving us Thunder Storm for Friday, Heavy Rain for Saturday, Sunny Intervals for Sunday.