Match Day Thread Saints At Liversaints, November 18th, 3pm - Bleak and Awful Matchday Thread

[St.Kreuzberg]

If MP2 is sacked, I don’t care about the new man having to deal with the hard run of matches coming up.
In some ways this is the ideal time to get rid, because the new manager would probably not be expecting to get many points, initially, and he will get a good chance to assess the players’ character, prior to the transfer window opening.
I don’t want a new manager signing in January, who then says he wants to see what he’s got before replacing players, with us missing out on potential replacements.

What bothers me most, just now, is that today’s defeat doesn’t hurt me the way defeats used to hurt.

I completely agree 100% with this statement. MP2 is a complete dud and totally out of his depth. The longer he stays the more damage he's going to do with the players form confidence etc. At least a new manager wouldn't be under immediate pressure to get results and could sort the wheat from the chaff.

 

[saintsfcfan]

Went out today and did things with the girlfriend, which was a far better way of spending my time.

Saw it was 3-0. No surprises.

I'm still Pellegrino out and will no be watching next weekend.

 

[Bill Hill]

It we keep this bloke I now expect us to get relegated. I struggle to see any other outcome. It's useless football.

 

[Libby]

Is it too soon to be talking about Everton as a must win?

If not for us in general, then certainly for MP.

 

[fatletiss]

I've not read through this, but I'd love to know if Ian Thumwood has posted.

 

[Libby]

I've not read through this, but I'd love to know if Ian Thumwood has posted.

He hasn't.

 

[saintsfcfan]

Is it too soon to be talking about Everton as a must win?

If not for us in general, then certainly for MP.

Every game now is a must win.

Should have sacked him over the international break. Now we are stuck with a plethora of matches in a short space of time with a rudderless ship.

We are going down if we do not sack him.

 

[VVD]

Went out today and did things with the girlfriend, which was a far better way of spending my time.

Saw it was 3-0. No surprises.

I'm still Pellegrino out and will no be watching next weekend.

I might try that, is she free next weekend?

 

[Lovelocum]

Well I’m secretly a little pleased that the morons who booed Claude after the last game last season and then got their wish to have him sacked are now howling for the head of the new manager.

The fans who wanted puel gone did not choose to hire Pellegrino. The board hired him. Puel and Pellegrino were not the only possible options.

 

[Lff]

Haven't had the pleasure of watching the Saints game yet but surely they can't have been worse than Eastleigh

 

[Saints_Alive]

Haven't had the pleasure of watching the Saints game yet but surely they can't have been worse than Eastleigh

At least you can watch Corky score for Burnley on MOTD later, Lff....

 

[Ian Thumwood]

I’m not going to criticize Saints for sacking Puel, as it sounds like there were some off-the-field issues.

But at any rate, the supporters were certainly not thrilled with the style of play.

I think that we can watch this team play a lot of bore draws with the occasional frustrating soft goal loss and the odd lucky win.

Or we can watch them get tonked like today.

The talent is not there. We spent the summer of ‘15 re-signing our existing not-up-to-sniff players instead of looking to improve. We let Pelle go, which was the right move but his hold up play was useful for our style and we did not replace that.

Boufal is a bit of a disappointment, but that happens. It’s why you sign more than one guy. Redmond is okay but he was never going to replace Mane.

Basically, we have not spent nearly what was required in the transfer market for two seasons now. So not the fault of the managers, or the scouts. It’s either Reed or those above him who hold the purse strings.

This is exactly my opinion. It is a god post. I did not listen to the match on the radio today although I understand that it was not a great performance even if we are alleged to have played well during the first 20 minutes. I was expecting a defeat and am therefore not surprised.

I am not against MP2 and think, as a generalisation., there is an attempt to play better football than last season although it doesn't seem to work. The squad does need a major overhaul and I think that with some substantial changes, the performances will pick up so that the manager can be better judged. By and large, the additions to the squad this season have been much better than those we added last season and if there is one criticism, it is the continued failure of the midfield to connect with the front line. The January transfer windows will be interesting as we need players who are better able to connect with each other. Too many players need to be moved on and I think some of the dead wood like Tadic, Redmond, Austin, Ward-prowse need to be off-loaded. The impression I get is that Pellegrino is not necessarily working with his "own" players. The addition of Hoedt and Lamina have been to the betterment of the squad. I will be interested to see how Pellegrino manages to build a squad that reflects his philosophy and abandons the one man up front line up.

I agree that we need to improve and that this season's results have, so far, not been good enough. However, I just feel that he is still trying to address the issues that he inherited from last season before he is able to stamp his own identity on the squad. The problem continues to be lack of goals but decent goal scorers are very difficult to come by and, to run with the point raised by "I ruined the party," I think Pellegrino will get better results once he finds a replacement for Pelle. I am not as hostile to the Argentinian as many people posting in here as I feel that he was dealt a poor hand by Les Reed. We seem to be linked with the right kind of players in the press and I don't feel as negative about our performances as I did last season. We will probably finish bottom half and maybe once Pellegrino had had the chance to repair the damage done by Claude Puel, we can judge him better. If anything, it is surprising that Eric Black is not getting enough criticism in this thread.

 

[Libby]

This is exactly my opinion. It is a god post. I did not listen to the match on the radio today although I understand that it was not a great performance even if we are alleged to have played well during the first 20 minutes. I was expecting a defeat and am therefore not surprised.

I am not against MP2 and think, as a generalisation., there is an attempt to play better football than last season although it doesn't seem to work. The squad does need a major overhaul and I think that with some substantial changes, the performances will pick up so that the manager can be better judged. By and large, the additions to the squad this season have been much better than those we added last season and if there is one criticism, it is the continued failure of the midfield to connect with the front line. The January transfer windows will be interesting as we need players who are better able to connect with each other. Too many players need to be moved on and I think some of the dead wood like Tadic, Redmond, Austin, Ward-prowse need to be off-loaded. The impression I get is that Pellegrino is not necessarily working with his "own" players. The addition of Hoedt and Lamina have been to the betterment of the squad. I will be interested to see how Pellegrino manages to build a squad that reflects his philosophy and abandons the one man up front line up.

I agree that we need to improve and that this season's results have, so far, not been good enough. However, I just feel that he is still trying to address the issues that he inherited from last season before he is able to stamp his own identity on the squad. The problem continues to be lack of goals but decent goal scorers are very difficult to come by and, to run with the point raised by "I ruined the party," I think Pellegrino will get better results once he finds a replacement for Pelle. I am not as hostile to the Argentinian as many people posting in here as I feel that he was dealt a poor hand by Les Reed. We seem to be linked with the right kind of players in the press and I don't feel as negative about our performances as I did last season. We will probably finish bottom half and maybe once Pellegrino had had the chance to repair the damage done by Claude Puel, we can judge him better. If anything, it is surprising that Eric Black is not getting enough criticism in this thread.

It's a shame you didn't want to give Puel all the chances/excuses you have there.

Hypocritical as ****.

Also he won't be around long enough to get a Pelle replacement

 

[st_brendy]

If MP2 is sacked, I don’t care about the new man having to deal with the hard run of matches coming up.
In some ways this is the ideal time to get rid, because the new manager would probably not be expecting to get many points, initially, and he will get a good chance to assess the players’ character, prior to the transfer window opening.
I don’t want a new manager signing in January, who then says he wants to see what he’s got before replacing players, with us missing out on potential replacements.

What bothers me most, just now, is that today’s defeat doesn’t hurt me the way defeats used to hurt.

I don't think anyone wants that. Certainly not me. But,

1. We're always told that it is not the manager who undertakes the recruitment (save for the odd signing like Osvaldo and Pelle), but the scouting team. So to a large degree, it shouldn't really matter who is in the hot seat come January, and how long they have been there. Les is either naïve, an idiot, or tight with money - or a mixture. But whatever, that has to change - to the extent that we should really already have targets in place to move on.

2. Unless we're appointing a manager from the other side of the world, who has never actually watched a PL match (other than maybe Man Utd), then they shouldn't really need any time to realise that we're badly lacking at the business end of the pitch. Yes they might not necessarily realise the issues with Fraser, or even Davis, but the number one issue of ours should be fairly well known. To be honest, I'm not sure I'd really want us appointing a manager with so little knowledge of us that after two weeks of being here, he suddenly realises that we could do with forward or two. Especially if they've had the previously month or two to study videos of us in great detail!

 

[Schad]

If MP2 is sacked, I don’t care about the new man having to deal with the hard run of matches coming up.
In some ways this is the ideal time to get rid, because the new manager would probably not be expecting to get many points, initially, and he will get a good chance to assess the players’ character, prior to the transfer window opening.
I don’t want a new manager signing in January, who then says he wants to see what he’s got before replacing players, with us missing out on potential replacements.

What bothers me most, just now, is that today’s defeat doesn’t hurt me the way defeats used to hurt.

Let's face it: our managers appear to play little role in most of our signings, so it really doesn't matter if the new manager has time to evaluate the squad, because the people doing the signing will long since have done so.

Edit: or what Brendy said above in the post I didn't read before hitting submit.

 

[Lff]

At least you can watch Corky score for Burnley on MOTD later, Lff....

Brilliant. That great England international player!

 

[mowgli]

Same old same old. We have a top keeper whose confidence is shattered and no target man up front. As a result confidence is eroding throughout the team.

Correct that. Keep Pellegrino. Move Bertrand and VVD on. Let’s get back to playing some home grown players

 

[fatletiss]

Let's face it: our managers appear to play little role in most of our signings, so it really doesn't matter if the new manager has time to evaluate the squad, because the people doing the signing will long since have done so.

Edit: or what Brendy said above in the post I didn't read before hitting submit.

Apart from Koeman who clearly had a say.

 

[fatletiss]

The fans who wanted puel gone did not choose to hire Pellegrino. The board hired him. Puel and Pellegrino were not the only possible options.

No one has said that. They are suggesting they were dicks for wanting him out.

 

[Ian Thumwood]

I don't think anyone wants that. Certainly not me. But,

1. We're always told that it is not the manager who undertakes the recruitment (save for the odd signing like Osvaldo and Pelle), but the scouting team. So to a large degree, it shouldn't really matter who is in the hot seat come January, and how long they have been there. Les is either naïve, an idiot, or tight with money - or a mixture. But whatever, that has to change - to the extent that we should really already have targets in place to move on.

2. Unless we're appointing a manager from the other side of the world, who has never actually watched a PL match (other than maybe Man Utd), then they shouldn't really need any time to realise that we're badly lacking at the business end of the pitch. Yes they might not necessarily realise the issues with Fraser, or even Davis, but the number one issue of ours should be fairly well known. To be honest, I'm not sure I'd really want us appointing a manager with so little knowledge of us that after two weeks of being here, he suddenly realises that we could do with forward or two. Especially if they've had the previously month or two to study videos of us in great detail!

I think that the problem can be fixed without getting rid of Pellegrino. There is something clearly awry with the coaching as we are seeing the same kind of problems as last season and there still does not seem to be a solution to them. If anything, I wonder how much Eric Black is a problem.

It seemed that we took too long to replace Claude Puel even though it was pretty obvious towards the end of his tenure that his position was looking precarious with the lack of goals and poor level of entertainment. I wonder if Pellegrino had been brought in earlier, he might have had the opportunity to look at his front line sooner. You make some good points and the last paragraph sums up for me the logic as to why I think it would be a folly to get rid of Pellegrino so quickly. You are right that the appointments of Puel and Pellegrino might be errors on the part of Les Reed . I am sure that we already have future targets but I think that Pellegrino needs to be given the chance to sort out the mess he inherited.

Regarding his assessment of the squad, wasn't there a comment from a former player / current player a month or so back to the effect that Pellegrino was still unaware what his best line up was?