Yeah I noticed ‘Her Maj’. So I guess it means that not only do us tax payers give money to her and her family for those necessities like having her palaces done up and a new yacht...but now it seems she invests her own money in a tax avoidance scheme !! Ever get the feeling we are being conned ? And as for that sanctimonious **** Bono......
Sometimes I think the public are mugs where the Royals are concerned. Assume her tax advisers are Prince Andrew and Jimmy Carr.
So let's get this straight. A whole load of MPs (some Labour, mostly Tories) are dirty sexist old men. And a whole load of super-rich people (including our beloved monarch) are dirty tax-dodging ****s. Who'd have thunk it?
Tax Avoidance isn’t strictly illegal. Anyone who has an ISA is avoiding tax....but the way these ****s bend the rules to suit their advantage blurs the lines into tax evasion. A simple google search of Tax Avoidance can explain it far better than I ever could.
I'm obliged to you, Stainesy, although I was trying to be somewhat rhetorical with my question. Not only is tax avoidance not 'strictly illegal', the last time that I looked it was perfectly legal. As you correctly point out, tax evasion is the naughty one from the perspective of the law. It would seem that there is a clamour to condemn those utilising tax avoidance opportunities from a moral perspective, but morals can be very subjective and personal. I know we've done this one before, but I remain of the opinion that I can spend my hard-earned better than any government, so make no apology for exploring any opportunity to avoid paying any more tax than I have to. For example, I have made the most of 10% entrepreneur's relief rather than 28% capital gains tax. I have converted income losses into capital losses to offset gains. I have received remuneration in the form of loans over a number of years - the PE/VC model - against which I have not paid any (or very little) tax. All perfectly legal and deliberately setup by the authorities in order to encourage investment into the economy. By way of balance, I have also recently suffered a shedload of capital losses - we're talking six figures - against which I will not benefit from any tax savings or offset. Until such a time as HMRC close various tax avoidance loopholes (and they are doing this) I see it as my duty to minimise the amount of tax that I pay. How many of us ask for a 'cash price' when engaging certain individuals to do work for us? I certainly do, and I'm sure most of us here have done so at some time or other. Regardless of whether this is small beer compared to the perceived rich, we are encouraging tax evasion!
Are you one of the top 1%, or 0.1% of the rich Ubes? That’s who these latest revelations are about. Would you bracket what you do in the same class as what Ashcroft does? What you describe is playing the U.K. tax system, which is up to anybody who has the energy and skills to do it. I don’t, through idleness and ignorance rather than any upstanding social conscience. Let’s not wrap ourselves up in morals and so on. We just need to decide whether all income and interest earned should be taxed in the country where it is earned, or inherited or whatever, and legislate to that effect. Simply make ‘investment’ in offshore schemes illegal unless you have already been taxed on the money you invest there. I’m sure that we and other countries will continue to close loopholes and try to collect more tax on cash hidden in Caribbean islands, and I am sure that people who wish to spend their lives that way will discover new loopholes and exploit them. Out of interest, would you have the same benign attitude to people who play, rather than cheat/defraud, the benefits system? Is it a duty to maximise your receipts from taxpayer handouts while simultaneously minimising your contribution?
I don't see how these are the same thing, Stan. Minimising tax is about taking action to preserve as much of one's personal wealth as one can. Cheating or defrauding the benefits system would seem to me to be a dishonest act of taking monies that one is not rightly entitled to.
Don’t worry Uber, I did get the tone of your question I guess it is a question of morals...and I just think, in my simplistic way, that if everyone paid their taxes in a way that they are intended, then the government would have a lot more money to spend on things for the country like the NHS, road maintenance etc....after all, the rich still get their bins emptied, still use street lights and still use roads. I hated the fact that I had to pay back child benefit last year, but as I earned over the threshold, I was morally obliged to do so......
I specifically ruled out cheating/defrauding, I was referring to ‘playing’ the benefits system in the way you play the tax system. You said you had a ‘duty’ to (legally) minimise the amount of tax you pay, is (legally) maximising the amount of benefits you get a similar duty?
My bad. Yes, if the system entitles one to certain benefits then why shouldn’t one claim them? If they seem unfair, then remove them in the same way as ‘unfair’ tax loopholes get closed.
Tell you what shocked me Stainsey, I only discovered last year that I should have been declaring pension contributions on my tax self assessment, which I had never done before. I have overpaid tax by quite a lot for well over a decade. So everyone owes me several pints, as I’ve paid for your GP appointments. Thought about claiming the tax back, but concluded that I didn’t miss it when I paid it (though of course I would prefer not to have paid it) it would doubtless be a long, torturous and infuriating process to undertake and that my time and mental health were of more value to me. Of course I am fortunate to be able to take this stance. I suspect Ubes will think this attitude immoral.
