Off Topic Catalonia - Spain

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Dorty Dogbreath

keeper of the glow
Nov 30, 2011
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Hundreds injured as police attempt to stop unofficial referendum from taking place.

'The hundreds injured' seem to be ordinary people who were trying to vote who have been assaulted with police truncheons.

Thuggery and heavy-handedness by the authorities will only make the people more determined. This will not go away.
 
RobEllious said:
They're like Scotland. Was there a refusal to offer some kind of referendum? If so then this is gestapo bullshit and clearly not on.
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The referendum was ruled against the law, so rather than challenging it through the courts the Catalan government just went ahead.

It's a bit chilling to have a government, however democratically elected, suddenly decide that the law doesn't apply to them.

I'm also not convinced that people should just be able to call referendums on a whim - particularly ones that only require 50.1% of the vote to win. Mainly because the decision making is often one sided - you can keep calling referendums on independence until one day you get one that wins, but once you've left you'll never get another chance to change your mind.
 
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It's a brilliant propaganda coup by the Catalans. Either they hold an illegal referendum, which will probably win regardless of true opinion (as No voters won't participate) with zero opposition - thus lending credence to the idea, or the Madrid government sends in the police to uphold the law, with the inevitable results we've seen today.

I don't really see a way that Madrid could come out of this ahead tbh. They apparently offered talks to negotiate a path towards a fair referendum but the Catalans went ahead anyway.
 
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Spain call the referendum illegal. Basque would be next if it ever came to pass.

Personally, I see the future devolution of power to city states, much like there was in the past. As cities become ethnic and cultural melting pots, there really is no need to keep National identity. I know the right wing and socially conservative among us are doing an impression of the gran on Little Britain who was constantly throwing up on foreigners... but I'm afraid it's inevitable.
 
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TheJudeanPeoplesFront said:
Spain call the referendum illegal. Basque would be next if it ever came to pass.

Personally, I see the future devolution of power to city states, much like there was in the past. As cities become ethnic and cultural melting pots, there really is no need to keep National identity. I know the right wing and socially conservative among us are doing an impression of the gran on Little Britain who was constantly throwing up on foreigners... but I'm afraid it's inevitable.
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BRS explosion in 5,4,3,2,1....
 
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GeordieHalfbreed said:
The referendum was ruled against the law, so rather than challenging it through the courts the Catalan government just went ahead.

It's a bit chilling to have a government, however democratically elected, suddenly decide that the law doesn't apply to them.

I'm also not convinced that people should just be able to call referendums on a whim - particularly ones that only require 50.1% of the vote to win. Mainly because the decision making is often one sided - you can keep calling referendums on independence until one day you get one that wins, but once you've left you'll never get another chance to change your mind.
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I agree but this smashing of the booths and the like seems totally uncalled for. They could have merely disregarded the vote. I don't know how riotous these rioters were mind!
 
RobEllious said:
I agree but this smashing of the booths and the like seems totally uncalled for. They could have merely disregarded the vote. I don't know how riotous these rioters were mind!
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I'm not sure that would have been a successful strategy given that the nature of the illegal vote would probably have delivered a thumping but utterly misleading win for independence. Really not sure they had a good option tbh, but I'm kind of glad they chose to uphold the rule of law in the face of populism. Can't comment on who was responsible for the violence, but I'm not sure I'd volunteer to be one of 20 policeman trying to hold back a crowd of thousands!
 
Dorty Mag said:
The polis were the ones swinging the batons. God knows if and when the Catalans gain independence, will they still play el clasico?
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If you'd been one of those poor sods facing down a crowd of thousands, can you honestly say you wouldn't have struck out at anyone who was getting too close and refusing to back down? I don't fancy getting trampled to death, and I doubt many of those at the front of the crowd would have hesitated to give a policeman a kicking if the crowd swept over them.
 
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GeordieHalfbreed said:
If you'd been one of those poor sods facing down a crowd of thousands, can you honestly say you wouldn't have struck out at anyone who was getting too close and refusing to back down? I don't fancy getting trampled to death, and I doubt many of those at the front of the crowd would have hesitated to give a policeman a kicking if the crowd swept over them.
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Aye but Spaniards don't mind being trampled on, just think bull running <laugh>
 
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GeordieHalfbreed said:
I'm also not convinced that people should just be able to call referendums on a whim - particularly ones that only require 50.1% of the vote to win. Mainly because the decision making is often one sided - you can keep calling referendums on independence until one day you get one that wins, but once you've left you'll never get another chance to change your mind.
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So much this. I thoroughly despise the referendum process on such big questions, which only have reductive answers like "yes" or "no". It's managed by political agenda, and invariably introduced by rebels trying to make a name for themselves, and utilising unhappiness amongst the populace, which is completely unrelated to the question at hand.

No ****er has a clue if Brexit or Scotland leaving us is good, so there are no good arguments for it. But Dave who owns a van is getting ****ed in the ass since the recession, so this may be the answer.. I don't think. And what happens if the referendum doesn't inspire the people who feel ****ed in the ass to out vote those who are worried about being ****ed in the ass worse? We do it again. And again. And again. Until the desired outcome.

It's nice we get to vote, but I wouldn't trust my neighbours with an amazon parcel, nevermind the ****ing future of the country.
 
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TheJudeanPeoplesFront said:
Spain call the referendum illegal. Basque would be next if it ever came to pass.

Personally, I see the future devolution of power to city states, much like there was in the past. As cities become ethnic and cultural melting pots, there really is no need to keep National identity. I know the right wing and socially conservative among us are doing an impression of the gran on Little Britain who was constantly throwing up on foreigners... but I'm afraid it's inevitable.
Click to expand...

I agree. Like with Florence, Rome etc back in the renaissance period.
 
700+ injured. Most of them are the public.

There are recordings of the Spanish police doling out 'justice' to people sitting down in schools waiting to 'vote'. Police yanking people by the hair, kicking them, hitting them with batons. Not football hooligans or people hell bent on violence but women and bearded blokes bearing roses. The Spanish Police are beelin'.
 
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