Webber & Farke revolution

[carrowcanario]

Would be really interested in peoples thoughts on how the Webber and Farke revolution is progressing.

For me in terms of the first team I think we've some made progress in terms of personnel and developing a wider range of tactics, but I think it's a case of some good first steps along a very long road. We have got rid of a lot of deadwood, however there is still some way to go to sort out some of AN's poor purchase decision and we still need to grasp a couple of nettles and dispose of some sacred cows.

I admit like many on here I hadn't heard of a lot of the players we've purchased this window, but when we have made signings and I've done some research I kind of see a rational in most case's for the purchases we've made, particularly the younger players where much more thought seems to have been given to getting players who suit our new style line up and replacing some older players. Going forward I expect our academy to continue to bear fruits for the club both financially and in providing quality players for the first team.

So for me we are certainly travelling in the right direction and I think our development going forward is much more planned and organised then it ever was under AN.

 

[canary-dave]

Would be really interested in peoples thoughts on how the Webber and Farke revolution is progressing.

For me in terms of the first team I think we've some made progress in terms of personnel and developing a wider range of tactics, but I think it's a case of some good first steps along a very long road. We have got rid of a lot of deadwood, however there is still some way to go to sort out some of AN's poor purchase decision and we still need to grasp a couple of nettles and dispose of some sacred cows.

I admit like many on here I hadn't heard of a lot of the players we've purchased this window, but when we have made signings and I've done some research I kind of see a rational in most case's for the purchases we've made, particularly the younger players where much more thought seems to have been given to getting players who suit our new style line up and replacing some older players. Going forward I expect our academy to continue to bear fruits for the club both financially and in providing quality players for the first team.

So for me we are certainly travelling in the right direction and I think our development going forward is much more planned and organised then it ever was under AN.

Great post CC, it's very much a case of slowly, slowly catchee monkey!

 

[General Melchett]

Whilst too early to give any definite answer, I think overall it's positive but with reservations that will either grow if the clear problems persist. I guess little has changed for me since the start of the season, though if I'm being fully honest, I guess I was hoping that our defense was going to not already be the biggest concern again. Before the season started I had a bunch of questions about the current regime, they haven't been answered yet and are unlikely to be til at least the season halfway mark where a few more conclusions might be drawn. The biggest questions remain;

Are Farke and his coaching team up to it?
I thought so, I hoped so! But still too early to know so.

Are the players that we are plucking from lower level football for peanuts really going to be good enough?
Juries still out here as well, Zimmerman, Gunn and Reed have looked decent, but the others have so far generally looked short. Franke and Husband have struggled at the back, Vranic has struggled with the pace of the championship and the others probably haven't played enough to give much of an opinion.

Bah!

 

[General Melchett]

Forgot to add, Maddison and Josh are the main plus points for me, both youngsters have really grabbed the nettle and ideally they would be great players to build a team around or as is more likely sell them in the summer for a small fortune!

Bah!

 

[ncgandy]

Well I'm very positive about this new set up. I'm not sure Neil even had a plan other than his next team selection.

I'm happy to put my faith in Farke's belief that these players are good enough in the long run. If not, at least we won't have paid big money for duds as in the past.

 

[JM Fan]

Forgot to add, Maddison and Josh are the main plus points for me, both youngsters have really grabbed the nettle and ideally they would be great players to build a team around or as is more likely sell them in the summer for a small fortune!

Bah!

I think it would be great if they were both here next season, but I can really see us cashing in on them. Josh has really 'stepped up to the plate' and JM can only improve with Wes as his mentor.

Well I'm very positive about this new set up. I'm not sure Neil even had a plan other than his next team selection.

I'm happy to put my faith in Farke's belief that these players are good enough in the long run. If not, at least we won't have paid big money for duds as in the past.

As I said in the MDT, Stieperman and Trybull (in his brief appearance) showed some good touches yesterday and Tettey had a pretty good game and was even going forward!!!
I'm sure some of the others will improve in time and should at least be good enough for Championship level

 

[General Melchett]

I think it would be great if they were both here next season, but I can really see us cashing in on them. Josh has really 'stepped up to the plate' and JM can only improve with Wes as his mentor.

I think there is only one desirable outcome for us, we get promoted partly on the strength of their rapid development and starring roles. If they continue to play well and even improve, then I think there is a snowballs chance in hell we'll be able to keep hold of them if we remain n the championship. I guess they could also stall and not impress too much over the season, but that is the least desirable, even if it did mean we got to keep them.
I guess the other factor could be Jacobs progress at Newcastle, managers will look at how much he plays and his general impact, to best guess Josh's chances of stepping up too.

Bah!

 

[Walsh.i.am]

And don't forget that so far this season, there's been no Pritchard or Klose and only sporadic appearances by the not fully fit Pinto and Wessi.
So there's not really been a full strength squad to pick from...yet.

 

[General Melchett]

And don't forget that so far this season, there's been no Pritchard or Klose and only sporadic appearances by the not fully fit Pinto and Wessi.
So there's not really been a full strength squad to pick from...yet.

Or Thompson and Jarvis. With Reed I guess Thompson's chances may have been a little limited, but still really wanted to see him kick on this season.

Bah!

 

[oldcanariesfan]

Or Thompson and Jarvis. With Reed I guess Thompson's chances may have been a little limited, but still really wanted to see him kick on this season.

Bah!

I agree GM - I thought Thompson would be an integral part of the squad this season and it is a shame his injuries have blighted his opportunities with the first team thus far.

I didn't realise we'd resigned Rossi Jarvis ?

Bah !

 

[DUNCAN DONUTS]

I agree GM - I thought Thompson would be an integral part of the squad this season and it is a shame his injuries have blighted his opportunities with the first team thus far.

I didn't realise we'd resigned Rossi Jarvis ?

Bah !

Lowestoft hall of famer Rossi Jarvis ?

 

[1950canary]

I was greatly encouraged for our long term future by what I saw but people have to be patient and also understand that with all the youngsters you also need older heads to guide them. Whether you like them as players now or not you have to accept that Wes, Naismith and Martin are experienced International players with extensive experience of the Premiership and they are invaluable to the Coaching Staff both on and off the pitch. I noticed a number of times during the game Naismith having a quiet word with Maddison for example and this is how the youngsters learn. I am certain that Martin had his contract extended as much for his contribution to the dressing room as for the playing cover he offered.

 

[DUNCAN DONUTS]

I was greatly encouraged for our long term future by what I saw but people have to be patient and also understand that with all the youngsters you also need older heads to guide them. Whether you like them as players now or not you have to accept that Wes, Naismith and Martin are experienced International players with extensive experience of the Premiership and they are invaluable to the Coaching Staff both on and off the pitch. I noticed a number of times during the game Naismith having a quiet word with Maddison for example and this is how the youngsters learn. I am certain that Martin had his contract extended as much for his contribution to the dressing room as for the playing cover he offered.

The only thing you learn by being a Scottish International is losing and sitting out tournaments.

 

[carrowcanario]

I was greatly encouraged for our long term future by what I saw but people have to be patient and also understand that with all the youngsters you also need older heads to guide them. Whether you like them as players now or not you have to accept that Wes, Naismith and Martin are experienced International players with extensive experience of the Premiership and they are invaluable to the Coaching Staff both on and off the pitch. I noticed a number of times during the game Naismith having a quiet word with Maddison for example and this is how the youngsters learn. I am certain that Martin had his contract extended as much for his contribution to the dressing room as for the playing cover he offered.

In Martin & Naismith's case in particular they may be better concentrating on their own game instead of worrying about others. I don't really see the need to have players with international experience either, after all we're not going to be playing any, however I accept that it's useful to have experience players around to help youngsters, but only if they are good enough on the pitch first. I think Naismith was retained only because no one else wanted him. I can see the case for keeping Martin & Hoolahan due to their experience and commitment to Norwich and I think this is why we retained them and why Farke tends to use them as captains on the pitch. Hoolahan for me is certainly useful on the bench as an impact player at this level. At the start of the season I could see that it was useful to keep Martin as cover (in addition to his experience), although I'm now not even sure he's up to that. At other clubs I wonder if he would even get on the bench let alone start and whilst his experience may be of value to younger players, I'm not convinced that playing him even though his performances don't justify it is the right example Farke should be giving. There are other very experienced players at this level and above at the club i.e. Jerome, Tettey, Jarvis. Having said all that I don't think we could have cut much more of the dead or dying wood this season, but I would expected as part of the Webber / Farke revolution that more will go in the next summer window. The truth is if we'd done more pruning over the last couple of years, we wouldn't have to be cutting back so hard now. For me we are an experience championship CB short of having a decent chance of the play offs this year, if we're lucky Klose will be able to step up to the plate, if not then I get the impression that the club is very much happy to use this season to build for next and push hard for a decent cup run to placate the fans and generate some cash.

 

[JM Fan]

Brilliant post canario and completely sums up my feelings on both Martin and Naismith. I'm HOPING that when Klose is fit and assuming that Pinto stays fit, Martin will be playing less and less.

 

[carrowcanario]

Just thinking about my predictions and a few things crossed my mind

1) Whilst I think our best starting 11 (assuming everyone is fit) is only marginally stronger than last season the mean age certainly is a lot lower.

2) The gap in ability between staring 11 players and those on the bench or even those that won't make the bench isn't as great as it was last year.

3) Their are going to be some very disappointed players who won't even make the match day squad, I hope Farke can manage their disappointment.

4) If ability was the only criteria then our captain shouldn't really be making the match day squad.

 

[JM Fan]

An excellent summary canario - especially point 4!!!!!
An excerpt from today's offering from DF (of Archant) on DF - "It’s really hard stuff and is always high-risk but we are totally convinced that it’s the right choice," he continued. "And I think it’s important, especially when there are some setbacks, to stand together, to show a big togetherness and that’s why we need our fans."
Full article here -http://www.edp24.co.uk/sport/norwich-city/daniel-farke-remains-convinced-his-plans-will-work-and-calls-on-norwich-city-fans-to-unite-1-5187770

 

[carrowcanario]

An excellent summary canario - especially point 4!!!!!
An excerpt from today's offering from DF (of Archant) on DF - "It’s really hard stuff and is always high-risk but we are totally convinced that it’s the right choice," he continued. "And I think it’s important, especially when there are some setbacks, to stand together, to show a big togetherness and that’s why we need our fans."
Full article here -http://www.edp24.co.uk/sport/norwich-city/daniel-farke-remains-convinced-his-plans-will-work-and-calls-on-norwich-city-fans-to-unite-1-5187770

Well I certainly agree with Farke in that the massive playing changes brought about by the Webber / Farke revolution can't just be discard because of a few bad results, indeed I think it may take a full season to implement them. I just wonder if maybe there was a case to be made for a more gradual change rather than a big bang. For me my biggest concern is that no one at the club seemed to able to be able to get a grip of our defensive issues which for me the 2 main issues were that the club diddn't seem to realise that you can't build a championship quality defence around Martin at CB and we needed a seasoned campaigner and leader at the heart of our defence to sort things out. The club seem to have made a good attempt at sorting out the second issue, albeit very late, with purchase of Hanley and it remains to be seen if the penny has finally dropped in relation to Martin. In many other areas in my mind there has been massive steps forward and progress has been good. I think we have taken some massive steps forward, maybe a few too many and won't see the full benefit until next season.

 

[JM Fan]

Well I certainly agree with Farke in that the massive playing changes brought about by the Webber / Farke revolution can't just be discard because of a few bad results, indeed I think it may take a full season to implement them. I just wonder if maybe there was a case to be made for a more gradual change rather than a big bang. For me my biggest concern is that no one at the club seemed to able to be able to get a grip of our defensive issues which for me the 2 main issues were that the club diddn't seem to realise that you can't build a championship quality defence around Martin at CB and we needed a seasoned campaigner and leader at the heart of our defence to sort things out. The club seem to have made a good attempt at sorting out the second issue, albeit very late, with purchase of Hanley and it remains to be seen if the penny has finally dropped in relation to Martin. In many other areas in my mind there has been massive steps forward and progress has been good. I think we have taken some massive steps forward, maybe a few too many and won't see the full benefit until next season.

I liked today's team selection and I guess Martin and Naismith are probably 'jet lagged!!!'
I'm hoping we won't see either at least in the starting 11 on Tuesday/Saturday

 

[Walsh.i.am]

I liked today's team selection and I guess Martin and Naismith are probably 'jet lagged!!!'
I'm hoping we won't see either at least in the starting 11 on Tuesday/Saturday

I fail to see how here can be any justification for their inclusion after a win and a clean sheet.
Russell martin can't even spell 'clean sheet' never mind help to keep one.