The nature of the PL isn't going to change in a hurry which means that inexperienced players are going to find it hard to get game time. There is no particular reason that has to adversely affect young English players. They just have to notice that the rest of the world exists and head to Belgium, Serie B, etc if they can't break into a PL line up. They can then become PL starters at age 24 the way the Belgians, Italians, etc do.
England U20
- Thread starter Warmir Pouchov
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The nature of the PL isn't going to change in a hurry which means that inexperienced players are going to find it hard to get game time. There is no particular reason that has to adversely affect young English players. They just have to notice that the rest of the world exists and head to Belgium, Serie B, etc if they can't break into a PL line up. They can then become PL starters at age 24 the way the Belgians, Italians, etc do.
Its true but I think there is a bit of stigma abroad on English young players outside of the feeder arrangements. Add to that us closing ourselves off from this situation for so long, it could take a while to sort it out. We've shot ourselves in the foot completely with the PL arrangements and found ourselves in no mans land. As you correctly note it isn't going to change any time soon, there is too much at stake financially. Its gone too far to reverse basically without some kind of drastic action which would see a big chunk of money disappear instantly. Such a dramatic change is not only unlikely, its potentially just as dangerous to the health of the game here. We're stuck with this from what I can see!
I still maintain however that the best situation is for the young players to be given the opportunity here too a lot sooner, and in more prominent roles. It is supposed to be the English Premier League afterall. I don't think it is at all healthy to close of your PL division almost entirely to foster some kind of international football depot. It certainly has not helped our national team at all. All hope is not lost however, as more enlightened minds have to come to these shores in recent times, who seem to genuinely want to see English youngsters given more opportunity. Pochettino seems to be doing more for the English national teams health than any manager I can recall in the PL era since Ferguson. First at Southampton and now at Spurs. It would appear Klopp has a similar philosophy and Koeman will have it inbuilt from the Dutch mentality. It will be interesting to see what approach those two take. If you had three clubs the size of Everton, Liverpool and Spurs bucking the trend, it could revolutionise the league and really help the national team. Pochettino has also proven it is worth the risk and the players are good enough. There is too much fear in doing so and it will take a few managers to take the plunge for it to change.
You're right about the stigma attached to English players overseas but that is largely because no English players ever knock on their door. I agree that it would be nice if young English players were getting first team experience in the EPL. What is crucial, though, is that they get first team experience somewhere before they are 21. Up to 21, the English national team is there or there about with the best in the world. It's just the senior squad that sucks
Yep, we are always competitive at the U17s, U20s. So its obviously going wrong in development thereafter. They won't all develop but literally none of them are developing the requisite mental capacity. Its exposure and leader roles which are required. I think we don't knock on the door enough, and players aare not really thinking round the problem. Its no good just saying "oh well we're not getting given a chance" and give up. Its not what the likes of Fabregas did.
I'm not sure that's the whole story, you've got to pull the thread and unravel it all. Probably preaching to the choir, but this is where areas like central gov or public sector fail, they don't consider the whole economic impact of any given decision.
For example, we impose a "home grown" target on clubs to improve chances for English players. The opposite happens. Big clubs get too much power, start to literally poach and pillage talent away from other clubs (Lewis Gibson himself has Everton and Man U scouting him), unmoderated agents turn their heads, kid ends up "doing a Rodwell".
You know that anyway, just felt like writing it down; it's not just about foreign players, though that in itself hasn't helped in the slightest. Wealth needs to be spread about; there should be a rule meaning at least 50% of the matchday squad is homegrown. Allows Brits to flourish and diminishes the amount of foreigners coming in. Probably strengthens lower leagues as well. Sad thing is, no ideas will be introduced because football cannot be moderated any more.
I'll just run out my hobby horse answer to the problem. Make it a rule that no PL team can field a player over, say, 20 unless they played at least 30 competitive (reserves don't count) matches the previous season. That way if Man City had a 19 year on their books that they think might or might not be the next big thing, they have to ensure he gets a full season under his belt somewhere: Rotherham, Rouen, Roma - - doesn't matter. They have to have got game time last season or you can't field them this one.
What happens when a player is injured for half a season or more? They would never play again because they hadn't played 30 games the previous season?
Presume that won't be as easy now if freedom of movement is not part of the Brexit deal. It may however mean that there will be less journeyman Europeans playing in the lower leagues which may give younger players more of a chance to develop here.
There would have to be a clause dealing with missed games due to injury.#
I'll believe that Brexit results in a reduction of any type of immigration when I see it.
By lack of Freedom of Movement I wasn't referring to hamstring injuries!
Edit: Just realised you were responding to GLS post
The argument against restricting European players being here was always we couldn't because it was against the EU labour laws. Surely no-one is going to argue (apart from maybe the football clubs) if the restriction was popped into any deal. Making them come in illegally by swimming the channel would rule out most of the French wasters we have had. Sissoko would have given up before he was up to his waist.
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If they don't want to bring back a restriction on foreigners in the Premier League for fear of not being competitive on a European club level, they could at least bring it in in the lower leagues, perhaps with a greater restriction as you go further down the pyramid? What benefit or purpose does playing foreign players in Championship or League 1 have? You want the English lads getting game time so they can come through the ranks. If we want a successful national team this is the sort of thing we need to start looking at when we are out of the EU.
Exactly. Just as currently for all non EU players, Work Permits only for players with a set number of International appearances should help the younger British players get more game time. And ban all Jocks if they get independence as playing for Scotland shouldn't count as a proper International appearance.
Who's job is it to prove if a player is genuinely injured though?
Chelsea could have 30+ injured youngsters on their books
If the rule is that you couldn't be considered injured if you were playing in the reserves or in more than 2 hours a day training that would address most of the problem. Chelsea isn't going to want to have a squad full of young players sitting around doing nothing.
As for the restriction on foreign players, I may wrong but I expect the Brexit deal will say that anyone from the EU can work in the UK if they fill out a couple of forms. Post Brexit will look a lot like pre-Brexit, just somewhat crapper and less efficient.
I expect this will be the case. At the moment they are talking about those already here, but at some stage it will come to bear that Brexit doesn't really mean Brexit as many envisaged it. Even if it only applied to those already here it would be quite a few years before we saw any genuine shift. Most likely is exactly as you say, sign a few forms and bobs your auntie.
I've said before I'm definitely for a foreigner limitation rule. I just don't see it ever coming into force. The PL would be staunchly against it for obviously sponsorship and monetary reasons. They would 'find' a way to circumvent any such rule...
U20's through to the QF's. Woodman saved a pen and Arma should have added to his tally for the championship by the sounds of things.
Still good to see the young Lions doing well!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40109029
Still good to see the young Lions doing well!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/40109029
Just make it so that every starting 11 has to have 2 English players under the age of 21.
Simple!
Simple!
England into the semis now with 1-0 win over Mexico. Woodman with another clean sheet, Arma playing 70mins.
Big game against Italy now in the Semi - beat Zambia 3-2 with 10 men coming from behind twice. Venezuela or Uruguay in the Final.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_FIFA_U-20_World_Cup
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_FIFA_U-20_World_Cup