Welcome To Liverpool FC, Jurgen Klopp!

[johnsonsbaby]

The discussion has nothing to do with us mate, but seeing as you've brought it up, Koeman is in his first season, and took over a squad that was unbalanced, not fit enough, poorly drilled and devoid of confidence. All we expected of him this season was to deliver something better than the bilge we'd seen for the previous 2 years under Martinez. He had a bad run but we were always in a higher position than we'd finished in the last 2 seasons. There were the fickle who were starting to gripe about him btw, mainly on the net and not at the match, but nevertheless they existed.

Back to the discussion about Klopp, he didn't field scratch sides in the EFL SF's did he? Saying 1 win in 10 is merely a fact mate, and it's his choice who he puts on the pitch in any case. You had higher expectations than us this season, and rightly so given the amount of investment that both clubs have had in recent years, the expectation being higher isn't an achievement of any sort, merely a reflection of the fiscal reality (which we hope to change in the coming years)

I pointed out your run simply because it's you I'm discussing it with and you're a fan of a team that had a shocking run but recovered and seem to have sorted yourselves out in terms of how the manager wants you to play. I was interested to see if you all went ballistic or rode it through. Why should we be expected to do any different?

It's arguable who had the higher expectations this season because in general we always have high expectations for ourselves, not in comparison to anyone else. This season your lot had a much higher expectation than last season so how we can reasonably compare our expectations against one another for this season I don't know how you would do that. I'm not interested in turning it into the evergreen money comparison argument though

Just to add our expectations have zero to do with 'fiscal reality' - go back as far as you like and tell me that we've never had sky high expectations, it's why we get the next year is our year tag.

 

[moreinjuredthanowen]

JB you are also right in that the teams below LFC are still there cos their own form was so poor for a long time and our recent run while fun for the mancs and bitters is an easy target.

Form is hard to get, thats why its easy snipe form good form like diego does. when the bad run for LFC ends (whenever) either we will still be close to 2nd or we won't.

 

[johnsonsbaby]

JB you are also right in that the teams below LFC are still there cos their own form was so poor for a long time and our recent run while fun for the mancs and bitters is an easy target.

Form is hard to get, thats why its easy snipe form good form like diego does. when the bad run for LFC ends (whenever) either we will still be close to 2nd or we won't.

I agree mito. I only used Everton because it was our mate Tobes I was talking to and frankly, to maintain 7th with the dire run they had is amazing and only happened because the teams below were equal in direness Exactly the same with us except the timing means while everyone else is getting their acts together, ours is falling apart.

 

[Tobes]

It is a fact you are right and in the end if players proved **** he's got to now fix it and we patiently await changes now. our season is over cos no silverware and only going for as high in league as possible.

My own view on your recent poor run is that's been driven by a few factors;

1. The way Klopp plays with the high energy press etc, the hectic Christmas fixture list, combined with the heavy pitches at this time of year, all combined = you ran out of steam

2. Mane and the ACON, his absence has proved key as he makes you tick imo, with his pace, directness, and ability to find a pocket of space

3. Teams worked you out. Sit deep and give you no space in the central areas and you struggle to break sides down. the high line means that you're then vulnerable to a quick counter.

You've got a fortnight without a game after Saturday, so there'll be time for a few days to recharge and then for plenty of work on the training ground. I'll be interested to see if he alters his tactics at all in the coming weeks, as I think you do need to be more flexible.

 

[luvgonzo]

My own view on your recent poor run is that's been driven by a few factors;

1. The way Klopp plays with the high energy press etc, the hectic Christmas fixture list, combined with the heavy pitches at this time of year, all combined = you ran out of steam

2. Mane and the ACON, his absence has proved key as he makes you tick imo, with his pace, directness, and ability to find a pocket of space

3. Teams worked you out. Sit deep and give you no space in the central areas and you struggle to break sides down. the high line means that you're then vulnerable to a quick counter.

You've got a fortnight without a game after Saturday, so there'll be time for a few days to recharge and then for plenty of work on the training ground. I'll be interested to see if he alters his tactics at all in the coming weeks, as I think you do need to be more flexible.

Recently it seems he has changed it but it doesn't work, we started working it wide and crossing it. Problem is we are not good in the air so that didn't work and teams just dealt with the crosses.

 

[Tobes]

Recently it seems he has changed it but it doesn't work, we started working it wide and crossing it. Problem is we are not good in the air so that didn't work and teams just dealt with the crosses.

Is that because teams have closed down the space so well in the central areas though, which has left more space out wide, knowing that they'd fancy themselves to defend crosses against your strikers?

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

Teams have closed down the space in the middle but they did that before we hit the ****. We had the intelligence to break teams down.

Problem is that now, we are forced out wide and resort to crossing. There's no patience or movement to stretch teams and create space.

I think this is down to a number of things but mental fatigue is a big factor imo. We've played every 3-4 days for almost 2 months.

I'm expecting a rejuvenated performance against spurs, now that we've had a week rest.

 

[luvgonzo]

Is that because teams have closed down the space so well in the central areas though, which has left more space out wide, knowing that they'd fancy themselves to defend crosses against your strikers?

Yeah I think so and instead of dragging wide and them back into the middle trying to create space we have been lobbing it into the box which has been pretty useless and it also gives away possesion and allows teams to counter.

It looked like they had been instructed to do it though as it happened too often.

 

[johnsonsbaby]

My own view on your recent poor run is that's been driven by a few factors;

1. The way Klopp plays with the high energy press etc, the hectic Christmas fixture list, combined with the heavy pitches at this time of year, all combined = you ran out of steam

2. Mane and the ACON, his absence has proved key as he makes you tick imo, with his pace, directness, and ability to find a pocket of space

3. Teams worked you out. Sit deep and give you no space in the central areas and you struggle to break sides down. the high line means that you're then vulnerable to a quick counter.

You've got a fortnight without a game after Saturday, so there'll be time for a few days to recharge and then for plenty of work on the training ground. I'll be interested to see if he alters his tactics at all in the coming weeks, as I think you do need to be more flexible.

Pretty fair assessment

The only thing I don't completely agree on is that teams have worked us out, that's too simplistic. Every team pretty much knows how another team will set up and should employ counter tactics, that's a given. Our problem isn't that we've been worked out but more like the players aren't being consistent enough nor energetic enough i.e. putting the effort in. We've had countless open goal misses for example and that's an indication of poor execution not of being found out.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

Recently it seems he has changed it but it doesn't work, we started working it wide and crossing it. Problem is we are not good in the air so that didn't work and teams just dealt with the crosses.

Well Firmino isn't good in the air, as the ****wit has missed two simple headers recently. I still say that had either of them fell to Studge they'd be buried. That said, he did score a Toshack-like one against Swansea, I suppose.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

Pretty fair assessment

The only thing I don't completely agree on is that teams have worked us out, that's too simplistic. Every team pretty much knows how another team will set up and should employ counter tactics, that's a given. Our problem isn't that we've been worked out but more like the players aren't being consistent enough nor energetic enough i.e. putting the effort in. We've had countless open goal misses for example and that's an indication of poor execution not of being found out.

If you're good enough and on fire (like we were from Jan to April in 14) it doesn't matter if the other team have you worked out - you still beat them. It's like Mike Tyson said in his prime 'They all have a plan - till I hit them in the face'. We failed against Chelsea and their spoiler tactics that day not because they had a plan and were all regimented, but because we didn't have a plan B (and still don't) to play against simple banks or 4-4 (or 6-3, as it was that day). They weren't the first team to 'Sus us out' that spring, and there have been many who've tried that approach even this season at Anfield, but we've either got early goals (Hull) or we've persevered in the end (Sunderland). The problem now is not so much the opposition tactics, but we've lost all belief that we'll get early goals, put away half chances, or even nick one in the end. And even then, any team knows that even if they are behind to us, just spend the last 15 minutes attacking directly and from set-pieces and we'll probably let in at least one, if not more.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

Teams have closed down the space in the middle but they did that before we hit the ****. We had the intelligence to break teams down.

Problem is that now, we are forced out wide and resort to crossing. There's no patience or movement to stretch teams and create space.

I think this is down to a number of things but mental fatigue is a big factor imo. We've played every 3-4 days for almost 2 months.

I'm expecting a rejuvenated performance against spurs, now that we've had a week rest.

I'm hopeful - dunno about expectant.

 

[carlthejackal]

You need to look up what revisionism means

Maybe it's because I'm an ol' git that I stopped my knee jerk reactions to 'runs of form' quite some time ago, I don't know, maybe I do look for the silver lining, nevertheless it's my opinion and remains so that the recent league run isn't that bad. I'm willing to give it two more games before considering a change of opinion.

I know in what context I used it. I hope you do. No need to steer towards the "heavy" meaning of that term

That's why football is such a popular sport. 2 people watching the same match or run of matches have different opinions on what's going on.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

I know in what context I used it. I hope you do. No need to steer towards the "heavy" meaning of that term

That's why football is such a popular sport. 2 people watching the same match or run of matches have different opinions on what's going on.

Like the referee and the rulebook in Unitard games.

 

[Zanjinho]

Didn't really improve those positions.

The money spent on Wijnaldum should have seen an improvement

 

[johnsonsbaby]

If you're good enough and on fire (like we were from Jan to April in 14) it doesn't matter if the other team have you worked out - you still beat them. It's like Mike Tyson said in his prime 'They all have a plan - till I hit them in the face'. We failed against Chelsea and their spoiler tactics that day not because they had a plan and were all regimented, but because we didn't have a plan B (and still don't) to play against simple banks or 4-4 (or 6-3, as it was that day). They weren't the first team to 'Sus us out' that spring, and there have been many who've tried that approach even this season at Anfield, but we've either got early goals (Hull) or we've persevered in the end (Sunderland). The problem now is not so much the opposition tactics, but we've lost all belief that we'll get early goals, put away half chances, or even nick one in the end. And even then, any team knows that even if they are behind to us, just spend the last 15 minutes attacking directly and from set-pieces and we'll probably let in at least one, if not more.

Well said. I agree completely with the sentiment behind Tyson's quote. As you've eluded to here, we've lost the swagger that comes before the k.o.

 

[johnsonsbaby]

I know in what context I used it. I hope you do. No need to steer towards the "heavy" meaning of that term

That's why football is such a popular sport. 2 people watching the same match or run of matches have different opinions on what's going on.

Agreed, which is why we're on this forum in the first place

 

[Sweats]

Errr...where's the figures on that..do you you mean the season brendan was sacked in? If so is it a comparison up to mid October 2015 and 2016?

As to the David Moyes comparison..is it same amount of a games etc or is this just a pointless exercise?

And every one of the current top six have improved on last year's points at this point of the season...I know last year was a stinker but saying everyone is **** this year is stretching it a tad lol...

If it's just a wum no worries lol..

I may have made it up. Though I do recall a few memes doing the rounds on Facebook over the last few weeks saying the same thing. That's not to say they're not made up as I firmly don't believe everything I read on the internet. Unless it helps wind some of you lot up. Then it is FACT.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

I may have made it up. Though I do recall a few memes doing the rounds on Facebook over the last few weeks saying the same thing. That's not to say they're not made up as I firmly don't believe everything I read on the internet. Unless it helps wind some of you lot up. Then it is FACT.

Sigh. The modern equivalent of 'It were all round Asda'.

 

[Sweats]

Sigh. The modern equivalent of 'It were all round Asda'.

Think it was paddy power. Sure they must use real facts.