Match Day Thread Southampton vs Arsenal FA Cup 4th Round 28/01/2017 KO 5:30PM

[fatletiss]

Totally disagree. Are we going to be relegated whatever the result at Swansea? Hopefully not. Are we going to qualify for Europe regardless of the result against Swansea? Very unlikely.

So, for me this was a hugely more important game. A half decent side could have won that game.

Swansea, Swansea, Swansea. Forget that game. Imagine it wasn't a choice between two games. Imagine that the physio said these ten players are at 60-70% recovery from Wednesday and are 10-20% behind where they normally are after a game and at a much greater risk of injury...

Imagine if Shane Long pulled a muscle yesterday due to lack of recovery.


* made up numbers, but used just as a point to make.

 

[Saints_Alive]

I don't think we did throw in the towel. We took a chance, and got beat (granted, a bit more severely than we'd have liked).

If the side we put out had beaten the side Arsenal put out yesterday, fans and pundits would have accused Wenger of throwing away the F.A. Cup. The point being that every club - including Saints, including Arsenal - has to manage their resources coming off the back of a midwinter fixture pile up.

I don't think that we gave ourselves any chance with that team Archers, BUT i'm delighted with Puel and the club and i'm looking forward to our first major trophy final in many years.

 

[fatletiss]

Not like you to be patronising FLT....

Not like someone to stop a discussion and change it to this type of comment. Always makes me think they don't have any response when they do that.

Try and convince me. There have been many times when I come back and say I hadn't thought of another point of view and accept it. Just because I keep pushing, doesn't mean I'm patronising.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

I don't want to make it seem this is a huge issue but, as you ask, because he'd already made one bad mistake in his short first team career and there was always a risk this team might take a beating against Arsenal.

Harry Lewis has now played 3 first team games, made a howler in one and conceded 5 in another. That could harm his development. It may not but I'm not sure I'd have taken the risk. I would have been tempted to protect him at this stage in his career. We're already playing a shadow side. Why not play Taylor?

I suppose with hindsight (I'm using it a lot today!) it wouldn't have made a difference to the score if Taylor had played as just about every Arsenal shot found the back of the net. I suppose Puel played Lewis because he is one for the future, whereas Taylor was bought just to occupy a bench seat. I agree that letting in 5 might affect Lewis's confidence but don't all keepers go through experiences like that in their careers? He'll have let in bucket loads in U23 games, it's all part of growing up.

 

[fran-MLs little camera]

I am very happy....delete that....ecstatic for Saints to be at Wembley. I have always felt that we are the type of team that should do better in cups.....but manager after manager has missed out on chances....well, Mr Puel hasn't. He did miss out on a good chance to get into the Europa knock out stages....but only on a technicality (and we would have progressed if the GD rule was used)....so no disgrace. We've been middling (for Saints) in the PL, but I'm expecting some better results now we are out of all cups (apart from the LEAGUE CUP FINAL). Overall, a good season so far for an manager coping in a new league....am hopeful for next season*.

*Usually am, but as a Saints fan we know there is always a curve ball coming.

 

[Lff]

yesterday you said you agreed with me when I suggested that the Swansea game could have been irrelevant in his decision and Puel chose to rest players because of Wednesday's efforts. Now, you throw the Swansea game back into the mix.... I suggested you didn't really get what I was saying and this proves that.

Just humour me for one minute and forget we have a game on Tuesday. Is it understandable that the manager decided to rest those players who were involved in such an emotionally and physically, energy sapping game as Wednesday clearly was? If that is understandable (and to me it is) then the next game and whether we have a game mid-week is irrelevant. If the scientists told him that the players needed that rest straight away, then rest them straight away, which is what he did.

Forget Swansea
Forget the next game.
Forget Cup or League fixture.

I am agreeing with you. The bottom line is we don't actually know why the players were rested. If it was because the players were physically and mentally exhausted and the medical staff felt they needed to be rested then, 100% correct decision.

If, however, they were rested simply because of the Swansea game then it's s very bad decision in my opinion.

 

[Qwerty]

Swansea, Swansea, Swansea. Forget that game. Imagine it wasn't a choice between two games. Imagine that the physio said these ten players are at 60-70% recovery from Wednesday and are 10-20% behind where they normally are after a game and at a much greater risk of injury...

Imagine if Shane Long pulled a muscle yesterday due to lack of recovery.


* made up numbers, but used just as a point to make.

Yeah, and 17th to 7th are not the same. The difference in money for each place is a lot. Only 1 of the top 6 is not in the last 16. If we were still in we'd be longer than 16-1. So a league win is more important than a cup win.

 

[Saints_Alive]

Not like someone to stop a discussion and change it to this type of thing. Always makes me think they don't have any response when they do that.

Try and convince me. There have been many times when I come back and say I hadn't thought of another point of view and accept it. Just because I keep pushing, doesn't mean I'm patronising.

I've already stated my point of view, you disagreed with it and intimated that your view is more valid than mine as you usually do, no matter what I type you won't change your opinion so let's leave it at that.

 

[fatletiss]

I am agreeing with you. The bottom line is we don't actually know why the players were rested. If it was because the players were physically and mentally exhausted and the medical staff felt they needed to be rested then, 100% correct decision.

If, however, they were rested simply because of the Swansea game then it's s very bad decision in my opinion.

Thanks. That didn't come across in that last post. A pub conversation is always better than written words on the internet (and off out).

I'm off my high horse now

 

[Puck]

I suppose with hindsight (I'm using it a lot today!) it wouldn't have made a difference to the score if Taylor had played as just about every Arsenal shot found the back of the net. I suppose Puel played Lewis because he is one for the future, whereas Taylor was bought just to occupy a bench seat. I agree that letting in 5 might affect Lewis's confidence but don't all keepers go through experiences like that in their careers? He'll have let in bucket loads in U23 games, it's all part of growing up.

Yeah it's understandable to play him. I'm certainly not saying it's a clear error by Puel. If Lewis had already played 10 or 15 games in the first team or hadn't made the mistake against Norwich I wouldn't have batted an eyelid.

 

[fran-MLs little camera]

Swansea, Swansea, Swansea. Forget that game. Imagine it wasn't a choice between two games. Imagine that the physio said these ten players are at 60-70% recovery from Wednesday and are 10-20% behind where they normally are after a game and at a much greater risk of injury...

Imagine if Shane Long pulled a muscle yesterday due to lack of recovery.


* made up numbers, but used just as a point to make.

Exactly....a lot of things to consider. This FA Cup match just came at the wrong time....would have been nearly the same for an EPL match.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

Yeah it's understandable to play him. I'm certainly not saying it's a clear error by Puel. If Lewis had already played 10 or 15 games in the first team or hadn't made the mistake against Norwich I wouldn't have batted an eyelid.

And he did redeem that error by putting in a good performance in the replay.

 

[fatletiss]

I've already stated my point of view, you disagreed with it and intimated that your view is more valid than mine as you usually do, no matter what I type you won't change your opinion so let's leave it at that.

Shame that, because I thought it was a place to discuss and debate, not just state opinions and end there. When you posted your opinion, did you think it was valid? By posting a valid opinion, we all intimate that ours is more valid and I would hope up for debating and discussing. I note with interest that you decide to stop when anything YOU write won't change MY opinion. That is funny. Did I have any chance of changing yours?

I don't understand why people post, if they aren't prepared to have a little discussion or debate. Even if someone gets a bit heated or passionate, that's just how debates can go. Imagine question time with just opinions being stated and not debated. Bit dull. You really should try having a bit of toing and froing as it might surprise you how that opens things up. Many a time people have made me see something differently and I have been happy to say that and accept it.

 

[Cardiff_Saint]

It was just two teams playing second string sides as it's early rounds and other factors. Arsenal just have more money to have a far better 2nd string side than us with the likes of Walcott and Chamberlain, not to mention a returning Welbeck. I feel for the fans that went but we can't have everything, we just don't have the money.

I notice the tabloids are barely mentioning how weak our team was, just jizzing all over arsenal (sorry couldn't think of another way of saying it), so maybe no-one noticed and we won't get a fine

 

[Archers Road]

Yeah, and 17th to 7th are not the same. The difference in money for each place is a lot. Only 1 of the top 6 is not in the last 16. If we were still in we'd be longer than 16-1. So a league win is more important than a cup win.

And who really wants to finish 17th? Before the Leicester game, a few people were starting to look nervously at the foot of the table. No, I don't think there's any realistic chance of us getting relegated. But i don't want us to even flirt with the outside possibility of a relegation tussle.

 

[saintkeef]

I am agreeing with you. The bottom line is we don't actually know why the players were rested. If it was because the players were physically and mentally exhausted and the medical staff felt they needed to be rested then, 100% correct decision.

If, however, they were rested simply because of the Swansea game then it's s very bad decision in my opinion.

More to the point had Saturday's game been a Prem game would so many players have been rested because of Tuesday? I think not. Cynical I know but there's more to this defeat than meets the eye - mark my words.

 

[Beddy]

I just don't understand that view Beddytare. I'm going to reply point by point to yours raised just to try and show you some mitigation or a flip side view.

I don't know the reason why Puel had to treat Arsenal with such contempt by putting out such a weak team
Perhaps Puel was only worried about his players and wanted to give them a rest after a mentally and physically draining evening on Wednesday. Perfectly understandable.

I accept we have some injuries but surely not to the extent where we had to make what was it 10 changes? Does anyone else remember any other game where Saints have had to make 10 changes
See above. Much earned rest. What is the relevance of whether we have made 10 changes in the past? Perhaps we should have done before and that was wrong.

Quite a lot of Saints fans going back to last summer were expressing their doubts as to our capability in strength of depth. Certainly over the last 3/4 years all we have managed to do is to replace players we sold rather than strengthen our depth
This is not an issue for this game, it is an issue we have compared to any big side such as Arsenal, Chelsea, Man Utd, City, etc. It is because we are not on the same standing as them. Surely you know that?

To lose 5 nil at home is a disaster
Is it really? Is it any different to losing 1-0? The outcome is that we are out of the FA Cup. Scoreline is irrelevant. IT IS NOT A DISASTER. Getting relegated is a disaster, as an example.

Puel needs his ass kicked in a big way!!!!! Putting out such a team is just criminal to face the likes of Arsenal!
Oh give over Beddy. Forget the opponents. He was looking after his players. Yes, he wrote off the FA Cup run, three days after sealing a Cup Final appearance. Is that really such an issue. I won't believe you if you tell me that if I asked you back in the summer that we will play at Wembley in a Cup Final and go out of the FA Cup in the 4th round to Arsenal 0-5. You'd have snapped my hand off.

Sorry mate and I know your first response will be, "It's just my opinion," but seriously step back and look at why we did what we did and ask yourself is it really an issue. I just find it a sorry state of affairs when fans can't accept a **** result with a weak team under the circumstances in which it happened. It smacks of spoiled, entitled behaviour and I know you are not like that, which makes your post even more baffling.

I don't totally disagree with you on some of your points fats...and some have suggested I haven't seen the bigger picture. Ok Fair enough...........I guess I am looking at it from a business point of view in a way. If you want to expand a business you don't try to do this half cocked. Saints have in my mind done just that. They say they want to aim to play in Europe which is commendable but they haven't prepared for it obviously. They have known for a few seasons what is required re the depth of the squad. Allowing themselves to be forced into replacing players season in season out, rather than strengthening is not in my view good policy. ( OK granted that is another discussion) My point is I suppose they knew that by playing in Europe they will have to play loads & loads of extra games depending on their progress. Just imagine if we had gone any further than we did? They knew they would have injuries, they also knew therefore that players could become exhausted.
You have to prepare for both the expected and unexpected as best you can. Saints have just not prepared for this eventuality at all.
Sacrificing youngsters to the mauling they got will not in my view help in anyway at all and yes 5 nil at home is a mauling no matter how you dress it up.
Puel will have done nothing to aid those youngsters development. No doubt they will have learned something from the game but it will have done nothing for their confidence. Confidence has just as much influence on a player as does his skills.

 

[Lff]

Just for the record, although I was annoyed about the team selection (see above!), given the team we put out I find that I am not overly bothered about the actual result.

 

[Mikey]

I still think our tactical approach doomed us more than the team but I'll spare you all a wall of text.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

More to the point had Saturday's game been a Prem game would so many players have been rested because of Tuesday? I think not. Cynical I know but there's more to this defeat than meets the eye - mark my words.

Err what?

You'll need to expand on your last mysterious point. I'm going to put a fairly hefty bet down that I won't agree with it too.