Please read my earlier posts,101. There is a difference between the early troubles and those of the last two nights.
Riots
- Thread starter robcafc
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Yes but it's all part of the lead up and I disagree that I'm offering a pathetic excuse as you put it as I certainly don't condone or support what is happening I just believe there are underlying problems in society which have led to this.
Also to quote a friend as I couldn't put it better myself; "A little concerned at how quickly people are knee-jerking into inviting that most severe of threats to freedom and public safety, the military, onto the streets. The most clear and present threat to democracy is always the unchecked power of the state over its citizens, a power always unleashed in the name of defence."
Also to quote a friend as I couldn't put it better myself; "A little concerned at how quickly people are knee-jerking into inviting that most severe of threats to freedom and public safety, the military, onto the streets. The most clear and present threat to democracy is always the unchecked power of the state over its citizens, a power always unleashed in the name of defence."
I know where you're coming from CAFCRoom101. Events like this prompt repsonses that focus on race, politics, the soft left or the hard right, newspaper preferences etc etc. I know that there are deep rooted sociological and political issues that underpin all this that are both historical and current. Newspapers like The Guardian will try and look at those reasons and explain the bigger picture. Those like The Mail etc will do what it always does.
Didn't we all like Tony Blair's soundbite "Tough on crime tough on the causes of crime" all those years ago when he was a thrusting young shadow home secretary? He had plenty of time to put it into practice but it died a death as soon as he got into power.
Sorry Sir John but that's just rubbish.
There are no deep rooted sociological issues, just a bunch of morons who are jumping on the bandwagon of easy theft and the chance to cause mayhem with little chance of being apprehended. The Guardian will try and excuse it by making up pseudo-babble.
Mostly good people live in these areas, all races, they aren't on the streets 'protesting', they are as appalled as the rest of us, yet they 'suffer' the same deprivations that you allude to.
Here here WSW.
These idiots have chose this path in life. How does becoming a thief and a vandal compensate for not having a job? How can they truly care about their future? If they did they would've realised that their actions will lead to criminal charges being bought against them. Now their future looks a lot more 'bleak' than when the riots started, no?
I'm giving my opinion. I won't rubbish your opinion. I live in 'these areas' myself, have done so for all of my 38 years and I know that the majority of people are good people. Of course there are people involved in all this who have seen an opportunity to break the law, to wreak havoc on their own community and to seize an opportunity. But, when the time comes to analyse why this has happened there needs to be more than just a sweeping judgement made that focuses on the violence and a deeper analysis of what is actually going on in these areas. Oh,and I didn't allude to 'deprivations' at all.
As a sociology student I couldn't disagree with you more WSW, as you suggest they are bandwagon jumpers what about the issues that created that bandwagon and opportunity as well as the society that created them. People arn't just born criminals, they're made and moulded by the world around them.
at the time of the 1870 reform act it was reported that the Tory prime minister Disraeli said of the widening of democracy, "now we must educate our masters". Whilst that thought was carried out for many years we have ceased to look to educate to the highest level only looking at "equality" of education for all and a resultant dumbing down of society. This suits many of the political classes both right and left who ensure that their children get a good education.
However, from training people for work we now train them for the dole and a life of unemployment and the jobs that could be done by our unemployed youth are undertaken by eastern european imigrants who don't mind working for the minimum wage and don't believe that the world owes them a living. They even manage to send money home. We allow our youth not to work and to believe the world owes them a living, we now need to educate them that despite the fact that they can rob a branch of curries for a 32" tv, this does not solve their problem just makes it worse.
We need to invest in education of the form that explains that nothing comes for free. That type of education can be carried out in school or in a dartmoor work camp but it is definitely education that is needed. There are a lot of burnt out buildings that need clearing and whilst this work could be done by machine why waste the petrol
However, from training people for work we now train them for the dole and a life of unemployment and the jobs that could be done by our unemployed youth are undertaken by eastern european imigrants who don't mind working for the minimum wage and don't believe that the world owes them a living. They even manage to send money home. We allow our youth not to work and to believe the world owes them a living, we now need to educate them that despite the fact that they can rob a branch of curries for a 32" tv, this does not solve their problem just makes it worse.
We need to invest in education of the form that explains that nothing comes for free. That type of education can be carried out in school or in a dartmoor work camp but it is definitely education that is needed. There are a lot of burnt out buildings that need clearing and whilst this work could be done by machine why waste the petrol
Its so nice being bk up here in a very nice place of Shopshire i left london at 10 and looked at the mess of Currys and Pc World in Charlton they totally trashed them last night ****ing SCUM. But the fire was still blazing at the sony Building. But i be back down friday for my old work Collegue Funalral on friday the scum not going to stop me saying my goodbyes.
B
brb
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Strangely enough, I think this will bring some neighbours and communities closer together to fight back against these criminals.
An example in Croydon where a residential community in the middle of the rioting, stood together at the end of their street and were not going to let any one damage their properties.
An example in Croydon where a residential community in the middle of the rioting, stood together at the end of their street and were not going to let any one damage their properties.
One thing is for sure: when all this settles down, the governement will go back to doing nothing about the underlying problems.
Many young people that I speak to everyday on the streets of Haringey, tell me that they want to work and save for a decent life. I doubt very much that they have been out smashing things up and destroying their communities. They want jobs but there are none, but they continue to co-exist and strive onwards.
The other group that I speak to will admit that they do not want to work; they earn their living from drugs and burglaries. They were out last night looking for easy money. They are criminals - a sad truth. Society may not offer them much, but it is their choice to live on the wrong side of the law.
Many young people that I speak to everyday on the streets of Haringey, tell me that they want to work and save for a decent life. I doubt very much that they have been out smashing things up and destroying their communities. They want jobs but there are none, but they continue to co-exist and strive onwards.
The other group that I speak to will admit that they do not want to work; they earn their living from drugs and burglaries. They were out last night looking for easy money. They are criminals - a sad truth. Society may not offer them much, but it is their choice to live on the wrong side of the law.
I think you are missing the point somewhat.
You are asking about the issues that created the bandwagon. My point is that the vast majority of the local people, in any given part of London that is under attack at present, are decent law-abiding folk who are existing under the same conditions that 'created the bandwagon'. They are not out on the streets burning and looting other people's property.
They may well have grievances which they may well address in the proper manner - I don't believe the rioters have any grievances apart from the fact that the police disrupt their criminality.
As for not being born criminals, they are not "made and molded by the world around them", they are made and molded by the people around them.
Good luck with your course but remember:
The graduate with a science degree asks, "Why does it work?"
The graduate with an engineering degree asks, "How does it work?"
The graduate with accounting degree asks, "How much will it cost?"
The graduate with an sociology degree asks, "Do you want fries with that?"
Nice to have your condescending arrogance on the board, WSW. Accept people have differing views to yours without saying they're chatting rubbish, or patronising them.
A few months ago I was listening to a copper talking about the problems of dealing with 3rd generation drug addicts, and it occurred to me that I lead quite a sheltered life in some ways.
American spelling? Might explain your ignorance.
Your whole post is hypocritical. You say it's a persons own fault they're criminals and then you say that they are influenced by the people around them? Shockingly, in poor areas a lot of the people are criminals leading to more people becoming involved in crime due to the society they grow up in.
Yes, these rioters are idiots and once again, I think they should be shot. Regardless, ignoring all sociological factors for their actions is redundant.
Mark Duggan can jog on as far as im concerned.
The police shot a man who was armed with a gun. is that really so bad?! Are they supposed to let him shoot them first?
He is another thug off our streets
The police shot a man who was armed with a gun. is that really so bad?! Are they supposed to let him shoot them first?
He is another thug off our streets