Riots

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Well I have just heard a journalist and Wycombe supporter on the BBC raise the issue of civil liberties. I am certain that Bill Turnbull is as shocked as the rest of us. I am sorryto say but the people whose jobs have been destroyed or houses have been burnt down have had their civil liberties removed by lawlessness. The Riot Act did provide that the suspension of the normal process was short lived and only there to return the streets to law and order.

Looking at footage of last night i heard a police announcement that people should disperse or "we may have to use force" With the damage that was being inflicted on the shallow skin of civilisation, the word "may" was the one that was inappropriate. The strength of our civilisation can only be that we are willing to defend it against such outrageous lawlessness, but the ability to achieve that delivery may have to be as awfull as the events that are precipitating it. I am strongly a defender of civil liberties and a fierce protector of democratic rights for all, but we have to understand that sometimes the democratic rights mean the Benthamite principle of the greatest good of the greatest number.

The burning of a food warehouse in North London may mean that some shelves will be empty of food. I would sooner that the idiots who had initiated that had been stopped by some means than that a lot of people go hungry because food prices go up. We have to return to the principles of change through the ballot box and not through anarchy on the streets. To achieve that we may have to suspend some of our beliefs, but so long as we do not turn away from them completely and are willing to fight for the values we hold dear then all will not be lost.
 
I think in the run up to next years Olympics the world will be looking for us to take decisive action to protect and provide security on our streets rather than whether we have the niceties of whether it is the police or the army that return the streets tot he majority of our populace. I am shocked that this is necessary and like many others am floundering to make sense of what has gone on, but clear decisive action is what is required of government in these circumstances.
 
Where the Army oh i forgot there involved in other countrys messes. I would love to see this scum run down the street when there faced with a massive Tank after them.
 
The goverment/politicians can all do as much talking as they like but unless they do something quick to bring back some law and order, it is only going to be a matter of time before another potential victim, whether that be a shop or home owner decides to take the law in to their own hands.
 
brb said:
The goverment/politicians can all do as much talking as they like but unless they do something quick to bring back some law and order, it is only going to be a matter of time before another potential victim, whether that be a shop or home owner decides to take the law in to their own hands.
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And then they will be hit by the full force of the law.
 
ForestHillBilly said:
And then they will be hit by the full force of the law.
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Maybe but some of these young rioters also need to think very carefully before crossing that threshold.
I can see the family tears now, he was just an innocent lad that just got dragged a long with the crowd.
Yeah, well make sure you know where your little darling is tonight then, before people no longer tolerate this.
 
Just getting ready to go back home and as there was trouble in Belvedere last night, I was worried about my Dad if problems spread to Dartford.

He'd already got his escape plan worked out.

As he pointed out, when you've lived through a war, planning like this comes as second nature.

Dreadful though that he should have to be thinking about stuff like this at his time of life.

One of the biggest paradoxes I've found with the images of the policing of this unrest, is that I can't get out of my mind the footage of the police pulling that disabled demonstrator out of his wheelchair and dragging him across the street when the University fees riots were on, yet standing off this bunch of cowardly criminals, essentially giving them the respect none of them deserves.

What an appalling situation.
 
Tewkes I agree it is an appalling situation but I would not confuse it with media images from the student riots. That wheelchair protester managed to walk quite comfortably some minutes before the attack and whilst I know he may be really disabled this apparently didn't prevent him from joining in some of the carnage that was afoot that day.

In my student days, I also took part in student demonstrations in London, none of which deteriorated in the way that one did because we recognised the extremists and nutters amongst us and did not let them lead us astray or take over the protest.

It is very difficult to get a balanced view on what this is all about. I question my own thinking on the response that is needed all the time and recognise that what we may have to do in the short term to restore society is not the long term solution. In an economy where more and more of the economic wealth is owned by a few who outrageously flaunt it in the media, I can see some of the causes of the problem. The long term solution has to be rebuild both our economy and our society from the bottom up, not an easy or simple task. Calls to shoot the lot of them is not the answer any more than supporting their "freedom of expression",. However, we need lines to be drawn for the time being and long term work undertaken to re-establish what we have lost.

Easy for me to say sitting in the south of France (weather not to good today) but we need careful and thoughtful reaction from our leaders not over reaction from the likes of me.
 
This is all unbelievable lads, can't believe what has/is unfolding over their. Some very understandably valid, strong views expressed here, their really is no perfect solution. I do believe though that no action is the worst action.
 
I don't for one minute believe that these youths are bothered at all about their supposed "bleak future", quite simply these people are anti-social criminals and opportunists taking advantage of our stretched police. The low-lifes are all coming out in force. They are hurting ordinary people and their livelihoods and need to be stopped at all costs. The army, water-cannons, etc let them have it. They have chosen this route and must face the consequences, and feel some pain too, like the families and businesses who's lives are being wrecked. Did anyone see the footage of the young guy who was on the kerb bleeding. A group of these rioters pretend to be helping him whilst they steal his possessions from his rucksack, it's disgraceful. Makes me feel ashamed to be a part of this country.
 
AllHellLetLoose said:
Hope all your family are OK Crack <ok>
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You are a gent AllHell.
My 16 year old sister was in the middle of it as the Croydon riots kicked off. She has few cuts and bruises from being hit by a missile, but managed to escape to my Nan's house, only for them to have been evacuated due to the furniture store fire.
I have a massive respect for the fire service, for without them there is no doubt in my mind the fire would have spread. It was so fierce buildings across the road were catching alight. They still don't know if anyone was in the buildings at the time.
I've heard that gangs are still in the area, and that more trouble may be ahead...
 
One of the biggest paradoxes I've found with the images of the policing of this unrest, is that I can't get out of my mind the footage of the police pulling that disabled demonstrator out of his wheelchair and dragging him across the street when the University fees riots were on, yet standing off this bunch of cowardly criminals, essentially giving them the respect none of them deserves.

What an appalling situation.
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Tewkes I agree it is an appalling situation but I would not confuse it with media images from the student riots. That wheelchair protester managed to walk quite comfortably some minutes before the attack and whilst I know he may be really disabled this apparently didn't prevent him from joining in some of the carnage that was afoot that day.
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I likewise think back to the Jody McIntyre incident (and the appalling Ben Brown BBC interview), Scratching he suffers from cerebral palsy and wasn't even in control of his own wheelchair.

Here's a link to think about http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/08/context-london-riots judging by the majority of responses here I doubt it will be too well received but it's worth thinking about.

I think I'll have to stick to football with you guys and not politics but just to make it clear I don't condone the actions and wish everyone well.
 
Police attacked a peaceful protest, not the first time! They did so and lied about Mark Duggan... its as if anyone who wants them to be accountable is regarded as the "enemy"... the result was they attacked a 16 year old girl who after waiting for several hours was battoned... It has gone far beyond the original cause itself but the Police, the political system and the economic system cannot absolve itself of any guilt or blame for causing the anger and its important we understand this so we can learn lessons about how and why these things happen.
 
I'm not offering an excuse I'm highlighting a reason, a cause. Unless you're just suggesting there is no problem our society has created that has resulted in this?

Sorry shall I get the express instead? Hear there is a lovely piece about Diana in there!
 
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