Effect of Brexit

  • Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
  • Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!
colognehornet said:
He may not have agreed with the way the present EU. is run but he would have had the trust in Britain being able to change it from within - he would not have run away from it. What I find hard to swallow is that, on the one hand the Brexiters are trying to picture Britain as being totally without influence within the EU. like a 6 year old child having sand kicked in its face. But on the other hand they are telling us how dynamic we are. If Britain feels that it was not able to influence the EU. how does it feel it can influence any other trade block ? In fact from all laws passed by the EU. the British supported 88% of them - this is a higher success rate than any other country - the British have helped to make the EU. what it is today, with all its faults.
Click to expand...

One of the biggest faults with the EU is the disastrous Euro project. It has placed countless millions into poverty. There were only a few misguided politicians such as Clegg who supported the idea. Churchill, like Thatcher, would have given up long ago. Cameron tried to get a small adjustment to free movement and failed miserably. The responsibility for Brexit lies solely with Merkel and others who gave him no concessions whatsoever.
 
superhorns said:
One of the biggest faults with the EU is the disastrous Euro project. It has placed countless millions into poverty. There were only a few misguided politicians such as Clegg who supported the idea. Churchill, like Thatcher, would have given up long ago. Cameron tried to get a small adjustment to free movement and failed miserably. The responsibility for Brexit lies solely with Merkel and others who gave him no concessions whatsoever.
Click to expand...
Do you blame Angela Merkel for everything that goes wrong in this World ? You keep telling us that Britain is the second strongest economy in the EU. yet apparently has no influence there. I suppose that the Euro was her fault as well - she was not even chancellor when it was introduced. Her 'open door' policy was nothing other than a humanitarian gesture to solve an emergency situation which had developed in the Balkans - there was no other course open without a human catastrophe. In fact Germany has easily absorbed the amount of refugees who have come - from the accomodation which was made available twice as many could have come. You talk about concessions - Britain has had nothing but bloody concessions since joining the EU.
 
I read a very interesting article a few weeks ago about how the UK and France could have led the EU. The trouble was that the UK still thought of itself leading an empire and didn't realize that times had changed, and cooperation between nations was the new order of the day. I have not heard the word empire used in the debate, but the attitude seems to be that other nations should bow to what we want. This will not happen today, and this is where the sovereignty debate comes in. Any deal between two countries in this age means that they will both have to give up some. India has said they will do a deal, but want many more visas. Australia has said they will do a deal after they have concluded one with the EU, but they want free movement. China has done a deal with Switzerland that gives them immediate access to the Swiss market, but the Swiss have to wait 15 years before they get full access to the Chinese market. The deal has been agreed which seems odd, but the Swiss have chosen to accept it.
No trade deals are simple these days, as shown by the length of time taken over the Canada/EU one which could still take two more years before it comes into force. For SH to think that it will all be so simple says more about him and his soundbite responses than the time he has spent wondering how these problems can ever be resolved.
 
colognehornet said:
Do you blame Angela Merkel for everything that goes wrong in this World ? You keep telling us that Britain is the second strongest economy in the EU. yet apparently has no influence there. I suppose that the Euro was her fault as well - she was not even chancellor when it was introduced. Her 'open door' policy was nothing other than a humanitarian gesture to solve an emergency situation which had developed in the Balkans - there was no other course open without a human catastrophe. In fact Germany has easily absorbed the amount of refugees who have come - from the accomodation which was made available twice as many could have come. You talk about concessions - Britain has had nothing but bloody concessions since joining the EU.
Click to expand...

Have I blamed Merkel for everything? I don't think so, try not to fabricate things.

I do blame her for her disastrous 'open door' policy which she herself, bitterly rejects. It was also a selfish action as one of the consequences was more migrants ending up in other countries. I also contest that she should take responsibility for Cameron's failure to achieve any kind of concession which lead to the Brexit vote, although this suited me as I did not want the UK to continue to be a member of the EU. Merkel will increasingly be blamed by fellow Germans for previous, and any future, terrorist attacks. This will no doubt be transparent in the forthcoming elections.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
I read a very interesting article a few weeks ago about how the UK and France could have led the EU. The trouble was that the UK still thought of itself leading an empire and didn't realize that times had changed, and cooperation between nations was the new order of the day. I have not heard the word empire used in the debate, but the attitude seems to be that other nations should bow to what we want. This will not happen today, and this is where the sovereignty debate comes in. Any deal between two countries in this age means that they will both have to give up some. India has said they will do a deal, but want many more visas. Australia has said they will do a deal after they have concluded one with the EU, but they want free movement. China has done a deal with Switzerland that gives them immediate access to the Swiss market, but the Swiss have to wait 15 years before they get full access to the Chinese market. The deal has been agreed which seems odd, but the Swiss have chosen to accept it.
No trade deals are simple these days, as shown by the length of time taken over the Canada/EU one which could still take two more years before it comes into force. For SH to think that it will all be so simple says more about him and his soundbite responses than the time he has spent wondering how these problems can ever be resolved.
Click to expand...

I wonder why you have not listed the trade deal between the US and Australia that was straightforward and quick. The High Commissioner did say it was always relatively easy between two willing partners, his opinion was that a new UK trade deal with the US could be concluded without too much fuss.

He also said negotiating with the EU was very difficult, and the EU was a protectionist organisation. No wonder it takes years instead of 15 months like the AUS - US deal.
 
The AUS/USA trade deal was first mooted in 1945, died, then was mooted again in the 1980's, died, brought to life a gain in the 1990's, died again, brought to life again in 2001. Negotiations took place, both sides refused to agree it without amendments, and it finally got signed off at the end of 2005. Don't sound that quick and easy if you have just lost your main market and are looking for a quick fix.

PS. Also every year since the agreement the US has had an ever larger trade surplus with Australia, and there has only been one winner.
 
Last edited:
yorkshirehornet said:
Just one inch short of your previous abusive behaviour SH.....

I must say I cant see how I would want to sit in a pub and drink with you. Your whole rhetoric is divisive.
Click to expand...

As you struggle to string more than one sentence together I wouldcertainly avoid you in a pub.:emoticon-0102-bigsm
 
superhorns said:
Have I blamed Merkel for everything? I don't think so, try not to fabricate things.

I do blame her for her disastrous 'open door' policy which she herself, bitterly rejects. It was also a selfish action as one of the consequences was more migrants ending up in other countries. I also contest that she should take responsibility for Cameron's failure to achieve any kind of concession which lead to the Brexit vote, although this suited me as I did not want the UK to continue to be a member of the EU. Merkel will increasingly be blamed by fellow Germans for previous, and any future, terrorist attacks. This will no doubt be transparent in the forthcoming elections.
Click to expand...
How are you in a position to know what Angela Merkel regrets ? Or do you have a hotline to her appartment in Berlin ? The majority of Germans believe she did the right thing during the refugee crisis - for once she reacted as a human being and not as a calculating politician. She was supported in this by the majority of her own party (CDU) by her coalition partners (SPD), by the 2 main parties of opposition (die Linke, and the Greens) and by every religious leader in the country. You seem to want her to fall - but the result of that would be a governmental shift to the left.
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
The AUS/USA trade deal was first mooted in 1945, died, then was mooted again in the 1980's, died, brought to life a gain in the 1990's, died again, brought to life again in 2001. Negotiations took place, both sides refused to agree it without amendments, and it finally got signed off at the end of 2005. Don't sound that quick and easy if you have just lost your main market and are looking for a quick fix.

PS. Also every year since the agreement the US has had an ever larger trade surplus with Australia, and there has only been one winner.
Click to expand...

The High Commissioner, who I should imagine is better placed to comment than you, disagreed with your above analysis. He said the US - Australia trade deal is working very well for both parties. He also said it took only 15 months, seems pretty quick to me.
 
colognehornet said:
How are you in a position to know what Angela Merkel regrets ? Or do you have a hotline to her appartment in Berlin ? The majority of Germans believe she did the right thing during the refugee crisis - for once she reacted as a human being and not as a calculating politician. She was supported in this by the majority of her own party (CDU) by her coalition partners (SPD), by the 2 main parties of opposition (die Linke, and the Greens) and by every religious leader in the country. You seem to want her to fall - but the result of that would be a governmental shift to the left.
Click to expand...

Let us see how her foolish actions are judged at the elections. Her popularity rating just fell to a five year low. She is partly responsible for the far right's increase in support in many European countries, not a good legacy.
 
superhorns said:
As you struggle to string more than one sentence together I wouldcertainly avoid you in a pub.:emoticon-0102-bigsm
Click to expand...
colognehornet said:
Coming from someone of your literary capacities this is the biggest joke I have heard in a long time - stop stirring, stop baiting and try debating like an adult.
Click to expand...

Well said.....

You have been so patient with SH too Cologne......
 
I'm quite happy abstaining from a political thread reserved solely for anti-Brexit and left wing views. It will be dull but at least you can always agree with each other.
 
superhorns said:
I'm quite happy abstaining from a political thread reserved solely for anti-Brexit and left wing views. It will be dull but at least you can always agree with each other.
Click to expand...

The thing is...... you cant keep away can you?

You could really work towards finding common ground but your sole interest on this thread is to create dischord... and you are now starting to make it personal again.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back