No Funds For Moyes In January

[Nostalgic]

If we don't get some first team quality players in the window then we will get relegated, no doubt about it in my mind. In order to get some first team quality players he's inevitable going to have to spend some money.

Short needs to speculate to accumulate. Selling a football club is never a simple process and will probably take months. If he finds himself with a debt ridden club in the Fizzy Pop league then we're not going to be worth much compared to us being a Premier League club for 2017.

Tight ****ing twat.

But this is just it though, ES is not responsible for our plight, only the previous managers who were not too clever spending the money he willingly put up. We are almost at a point of no return financially and no amount of criticism of the current management staff is going to change it as they are having to deal with it - maybe with supporters and players help most of all.

 

[Tel (they/them)]

I remember the pretty big fines but to the wealth of those clubs they were almost nowt, also the transfer bans on Barca and RMadrid for a season or two.

Without a doubt the two sets of rules will benefit those who regularly qualify for Euros but I am pretty sure their creative accountants and so called "foreign" sales of shirts and other merchandise will take care of income outside of gates etc.

Marketing mate, a good MD will make sure you get noticed, I'll withdraw now before I upset the Quinn Sheep.

 

[The Norton Cat]

Marketing mate, a good MD will make sure you get noticed, I'll withdraw now before I upset the Quinn Sheep.

This is something that I would want to work on heavily if I owned a football club. Look at the way tiny clubs like Sankt Pauli have become internationally recognised icons. We can all say that though, can't we? "If i owned a club...." Seemingly, the people that own SAFC don't think the same way.

 

[Tel (they/them)]

This is something that I would want to work on heavily if I owned a football club. Look at the way tiny clubs like Sankt Pauli have become internationally recognised icons. We can all say that though, can't we? "If i owned a club...." Seemingly, the people that own SAFC don't think the same way.

It's been a disaster mate. The worst part is, it's been coming for some time now and it looks like ES has finally run out of blind alleys.

Now he wants out because he's screwed your club into the ground. It's his mess to clean up.

 

[Tel (they/them)]

Bain has probably just proven himself to be a little bit naive as well, a very negative interview that may rub off and affect morale in the team and staff at the club. It's like he's saying 'there's not much hope'.

There's just no point telling the press this sort of thing imooc.

 

[Gil T Azell]

Were all assuming we are being told the truth. Probably is but as we appear to be learning how to run a football club............ finally, could it be utter b*llocks?

 

[Vincemac]

Were all assuming we are being told the truth. Probably is but as we appear to be learning how to run a football club............ finally, could it be utter b*llocks?

There's that Aswell

 

[Jack TheLad]

But this is just it though, ES is not responsible for our plight, only the previous managers who were not too clever spending the money he willingly put up. We are almost at a point of no return financially and no amount of criticism of the current management staff is going to change it as they are having to deal with it - maybe with supporters and players help most of all.

He is the chairman of the football club, he is the owner of the football club. The buck stops with him. He had a say in every single appointment and would have sanctioned every single major decision made.

I never once criticised our current management staff (I presume you mean Moyes & Bain). Can only make do with what the tools they're given to utilise.

Granted, he's put money into the club, do you believe it's been enough? Battling relegation year on year? Do you honestly believe Short is not responsible in any capacity for the plight we find ourselves in every single year?

 

[Nostalgic]

He is the chairman of the football club, he is the owner of the football club. The buck stops with him. He had a say in every single appointment and would have sanctioned every single major decision made.

I never once criticised our current management staff (I presume you mean Moyes & Bain). Can only make do with what the tools they're given to utilise.

Granted, he's put money into the club, do you believe it's been enough? Battling relegation year on year? Do you honestly believe Short is not responsible in any capacity for the plight we find ourselves in every single year?

He bought into us via a football chairman, a potentially promising manager who both, eventually, turned out to be duds. I am sure he also sought advice from other footballing people before hiring managers and who is to say how they would turn out ahead of the fact.

We all have to deal with fallout and singling out the owner for mistakes made achieves nothing. Just on a historical note ManU appointed top men with good records to follow Sir Matt Busby and they all failed, yet Arsenal appoint a physio and he wins the double in '71. But that was when success was based on winning a trophy not qualifying for Europe.

 

[Jack TheLad]

He bought into us via a football chairman, a potentially promising manager who both, eventually, turned out to be duds. I am sure he also sought advice from other footballing people before hiring managers and who is to say how they would turn out ahead of the fact.

We all have to deal with fallout and singling out the owner for mistakes made achieves nothing. Just on a historical note ManU appointed top men with good records to follow Sir Matt Busby and they all failed, yet Arsenal appoint a physio and he wins the double in '71. But that was when success was based on winning a trophy not qualifying for Europe.

He bought into the club, and I truly believe he had good intentions or why else would he have done it. What transpired is that he's not very good at running a football club, clearly. I'll just sit here and blindly accept the rule my club is under should I, not ask questions and toe the line?

He's now got the manager in place that he claimed to have chased for the past 3/4 managers since MON and he wants out now.

The history lesson doesn't make a difference to the questions I asked (which you clearly swerved). Football has changed since the 70's.

If you're going to ignore questions when asked there's not much point in engaging with you.

 

[Nostalgic]

He bought into the club, and I truly believe he had good intentions or why else would he have done it. What transpired is that he's not very good at running a football club, clearly. I'll just sit here and blindly accept the rule my club is under should I, not ask questions and toe the line?

He's now got the manager in place that he claimed to have chased for the past 3/4 managers since MON and he wants out now.

The history lesson doesn't make a difference to the questions I asked (which you clearly swerved). Football has changed since the 70's.

If you're going to ignore questions when asked there's not much point in engaging with you.

If the questions were do I believe he has put enough money into the club then the answer is yes, otherwise we would not be on the edge of FFP. If the other was about him being responsible for the clubs annual battle against relegation then again no - he gave others that responsibility and their failures became his.

As to him leaving - then maybe he has just had enough and feels that someone else can have a go where he has failed and he seeks his money back. Normal business prectice.

 

[Jack TheLad]

If the questions were do I believe he has put enough money into the club then the answer is yes, otherwise we would not be on the edge of FFP. If the other was about him being responsible for the clubs annual battle against relegation then again no - he gave others that responsibility and their failures became his.

As to him leaving - then maybe he has just had enough and feels that someone else can have a go where he has failed and he seeks his money back. Normal business prectice.

I didn't ask if you believe him solely responsible but whether you believe he can be attributed no blame at all.

I find it difficult personally, to understand how the chairman/owner/CEO or whatever shouldn't be attributed blame because of their own decisions turn out to be bad ones.

Take it away from football, say a new head chef gets a new job employed by a restaurant owner and he essentially turns out to be a **** chef and the restaurant goes south. My question is, who is responsible for this? The chef obviously because his food was ****, but some blame has to be apportioned to the person that appointed this chef, the owner.

In my opinion, Ellis Short has to take the majority of the blame for the annual relegation battle which we find ourselves in.

 

[The Norton Cat]

If the questions were do I believe he has put enough money into the club then the answer is yes, otherwise we would not be on the edge of FFP. If the other was about him being responsible for the clubs annual battle against relegation then again no - he gave others that responsibility and their failures became his.

As to him leaving - then maybe he has just had enough and feels that someone else can have a go where he has failed and he seeks his money back. Normal business prectice.

Its not just as simple as appointing a manager and giving him a budget. Short has tried various approaches with managers of different styles, on and off experiments with directors of football, begging a man who said he wanted to retire to come back. None of this shows long term strategic thinking. He's fundamentally failed to take note of excellent examples of how to run a football club (e.g. Southampton, and until recent ownership changes, Swansea) that were right under his nose. He's clearly tried hard, he's clearly put money in, but from where I'm standing he's been naive and not learnt from his mistakes.

 

[haslam]

Funds would be great, staying up would be pretty handy but the important thing is to still be around in 10, 20, 30 years time and beyond. Although money is flooding in to the game there are plenty of clubs spending way beyond their means and the last thing you want is to throw money at the issue and then go down anyway. We did that but were coming from a healthier financial position to begin with - still suspect that if we don't go up this year then next year we would have to handle things very differently.

Finances at Sunderland have been pretty shambolic, lots of short-term thinking and 'fixes'. Just one more...

 

[haslam]

ps. Kone may have been on for 18m transfer in the summer but I just don't think it's likely now. He's not looked the same so far this season (decent but not the beast he was), I doubt he'll go as the figures on offer would be less and his new contract means the club wont accept less and his wages are surely higher now (so he's probably less bothered about moving and incoming clubs would have a higher benchmark to top). Watmore and Pickford are you big draws in my view, sadly Watmore is out of the picture for now

 

[Canny Lad]

Selling to buy, wow we really are moving forward. The club really knows how to take the enthusiasm out of our fans. .. Nothing left to say..

 

[Deleted #]

This is something that I would want to work on heavily if I owned a football club. Look at the way tiny clubs like Sankt Pauli have become internationally recognised icons. We can all say that though, can't we? "If i owned a club...." Seemingly, the people that own SAFC don't think the same way.

I disagree with that, mate.

Ellis Short has had the idea of what's needed but when it comes to implementing it, we keep falling short. Invest In Africa was supposed to build the brand, but apart from the great sponsorship deal we got, It wasn't the success that he was hoping for. Now he has appointed Martin Bain, who when at Tel Aviv was applauded for his strong commercial growth.

I believe he knows whats needed to be done, but we've been poor at putting everything together. It's also a tough job which anybody can only do so much, without success happening on the pitch. The realisation is a club like Sunderland has it's limits. We have a big history, but we aren't a big club and it would take monumental success on the football pitch, to be noticed outside of the city.

 

[The Norton Cat]

I disagree with that, mate.

Ellis Short has had the idea of what's needed but when it comes to implementing it, we keep falling short. Invest In Africa was supposed to build the brand, but apart from the great sponsorship deal we got, It wasn't the success that he was hoping for. Now he has appointed Martin Bain, who when at Tel Aviv was applauded for his strong commercial growth.

I believe he knows whats needed to be done, but we've been poor at putting everything together. It's also a tough job which anybody can only do so much, without success happening on the pitch. The realisation is a club like Sunderland has it's limits. We have a big history, but we aren't a big club and it would take monumental success on the football pitch, to be noticed outside of the city.

I'd forgotten about Invest in Africa. It seemed to fall by the wayside quite quickly though. Bain's time seems to currently be taken up with spewing out pro-Moyes and pro-Short propaganda and rhetoric.

I think when you grow the brand, you have to play to your strengths. We do have a strong a history and that could be used as the foundation for improving the club's image but it seems largely to have been ignored by Short. The other thing is, any flair players that might generate outside interest in the club seem to get banished pretty soon after arriving with recent managers, and the crowd, preferring shouty cloggers.

 

[Tel (they/them)]

I think Leicester's brand value soared 160% or something in 2016, taking them inside the top 20 brands in football. Teams are being given every chance to grow by Sky's broadcasting platform, they put your players faces in every country on the planet more or less, so a good marketing team should have no issues selling your brand.

 

[Deletion Requested1]

I think Leicester's brand value soared 160% or something in 2016, taking them inside the top 20 brands in football. Teams are being given every chance to grow by Sky's broadcasting platform, they put your players faces in every country on the planet more or less, so a good marketing team should have no issues selling your brand.

Well we will not be getting any extra income from Sky for TV appearances for a while - they announced the fixtures up till Feb 27th and we are the only premier club that does not feature