On the bright side though the lads we've already got have shown that they are good enough to stay up, we're bottom but only just. There's hope yet Vince!
No Funds For Moyes In January
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On the bright side though the lads we've already got have shown that they are good enough to stay up, we're bottom but only just. There's hope yet Vince!
So is Kim Kardashian but not for sunderland, think Moysey has the hots for Fellaini though
Just read an article on another forum and it shows just how bad our dealings in the transfer market have been in recent years..It makes absolutely shocking reading..
I think we could get better value for money than Djilobodji and N'Dong though. We know that's possible from the Kone and Kirchhoff deals and even from the M'Vila deal that we didn't do. The problem is, I don't trust the club to find that value for money anymore. Not based on the last window, anyway.
I'm not sure the three wins we've had show we're capable of staying up. I've not really got any more faith in Moyes than I had before. The team battled for a few games and then inexplicably reverted to the flaccid character of the few games prior to Bournemouth against the very team who's jugular they should have been going for.
Yeh I've still got hope
We will find out a few things in the next few weeks.
The trouble is when we appear to pick up a few needed points other teams seem to pull some results out the bag
We could definitely do better theoretically but all the good value signings were Allardyce and Bod and NDong were both Moyes so it seems more likely it'd be along their lines.
I'm not exactly filled with confidence either that we will stay up far from it actually but at least we've got wins under our belt and we're only one win away from safety.
Some information which may give an insight into our problems.
Sunderland fans have long-since become weary of hearing that there is no money to spend in the transfer window.
With a slice of the latest £5bn record TV deal, average gates of 40,000-plus, and a billionaire owner to boot, how can the club plead poverty, they ask.
Why won’t Ellis Short spend money now, to avoid the risk of relegation and the loss of that TV cash?
These are fair questions and, as the club’s new chief executive Martin Bain outlined today, the answers lie as much in the Premier League’s Financial Fair Play regulations than in Short’s reluctance to dip into his own pocket.
Because in fact it is the FFP regulations that effectively tie the club’s hands in the transfer market.
But what are those FFP regulations that have been holding the club back for so long?
The first thing to make clear is that the Premier League FFP rules are not the same as the UEFA FFP rules.
The ultimate sanction under the UEFA scheme is to ban a club from European competition, and since Sunderland are not in any danger of qualifying for the Champions League or Europa League any time soon, that would be a non-issue.
But break the Premier League FFP rules, and a club runs the risk of a points deduction.
No club has yet broken the Premier League regulations, and no club wants to be the first to find out whether the powers-that-be are willing to dock points.
The Premier League FFP rules are complex – they may be bedtime reading for accountants, but not for the average football fan.
In simple terms they put a cap on a club’s total losses over a three-year period, and limit the increase to a club’s wage bill this season to £7m plus any profit from player trading and additional commercial deals.
Or to put it another way, given the current state of Sunderland’s finances, even if Short was prepared to spend £100m, £40m, or even £30m, on new players next month, he could not do so.
Yet the richer the club, the more it can spend.
Behemoths such as Manchester United, Manchester City, Chelsea, Arsenal, and Liverpool, can pay huge transfer fees and colossal wages, while those further down the pecking order must count the pennies.
And while City and Chelsea joined the elite thanks to the largesse of billionaire owners Sheikh Mansour and Roman Abramovich respectively, the FFP rules which came into force in the 2013-14 season prevent any more sugardaddies buying clubs and gatecrashing the party.
In the upper echelons, the FFP rules act as a protection racket while at the bottom end of the table, where Sunderland habitually reside, they were sold as a measure to prevent self-harm.
Portsmouth’s plight showed the dangers of a club overstretching itself in a vain attempt to retain Premier League status, as Pompey twice went into administration and were relegated three times between 2009 and 2013 to end up in League Two.
FFP was the Premier League’s attempt to minimise the chances of another club ending up in Portsmouth’s predicament.
But it leaves a club such as Sunderland, whose squad desperately needs major investment, with a massive problem.
Because they Sunderland can work on ways to raise its turnover, but such improvements will merely be incremental and will take a long time to realise in any event.
The only way the Black Cats can move the needle quickly is by the shrewd buying and selling of players – although the club’s record in that department over the last five years has been truly abysmal.
Money has been frittered away on terrible signings by a series of managers, head coaches, and directors of football, with barely a profit turned on any of them.
In contrast, clubs that get it right, Southampton being the best example in recent seasons, have shown that it is possible to making astute signings and then sell those players on while maintaining a level of success on the pitch.
Sunderland, however, are still paying multi-million pound instalments for the failed signings of the past, many of whom have already left the club.
They are also paying wages, in whole or in part, of players who remain on the books but have no future on Wearside.
This is money that has to be accounted for under the FFP rules, and which therefore leaves little room for manoeuvre next month – at least, unless the club were to offload a player such as Lamine Kone, or risk the wrath of the fans by cashing in on Jordan Pickford.
Sunderland has been so badly-run for so long, that there are no quick fixes. Five years or more of damage cannot be undone overnight.
Bain and manager David Moyes are essentially having to make-do-and-mend for now, while trying to put the club back on an even keel in the longer-term.
The short-term pain is a major source of frustration for the fans but, sadly, it is a necessary evil.
http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/spor...-sunderlands-january-transfer-window-12316221
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Sunderland fans have long-since become weary of hearing that there is no money to spend in the transfer window.
With a slice of the latest £5bn record TV deal, average gates of 40,000-plus, and a billionaire owner to boot, how can the club plead poverty, they ask.
Why won’t Ellis Short spend money now, to avoid the risk of relegation and the loss of that TV cash?
These are fair questions and, as the club’s new chief executive Martin Bain outlined today, the answers lie as much in the Premier League’s Financial Fair Play regulations than in Short’s reluctance to dip into his own pocket.
Because in fact it is the FFP regulations that effectively tie the club’s hands in the transfer market.
But what are those FFP regulations that have been holding the club back for so long?
The first thing to make clear is that the Premier League FFP rules are not the same as the UEFA FFP rules.
The ultimate sanction under the UEFA scheme is to ban a club from European competition, and since Sunderland are not in any danger of qualifying for the Champions League or Europa League any time soon, that would be a non-issue.
But break the Premier League FFP rules, and a club runs the risk of a points deduction.
No club has yet broken the Premier League regulations, and no club wants to be the first to find out whether the powers-that-be are willing to dock points.
The Premier League FFP rules are complex – they may be bedtime reading for accountants, but not for the average football fan.
In simple terms they put a cap on a club’s total losses over a three-year period, and limit the increase to a club’s wage bill this season to £7m plus any profit from player trading and additional commercial deals.
Or to put it another way, given the current state of Sunderland’s finances, even if Short was prepared to spend £100m, £40m, or even £30m, on new players next month, he could not do so.
Yet the richer the club, the more it can spend.
Behemoths such as Manchester United, Manchester City, Chelsea, Arsenal, and Liverpool, can pay huge transfer fees and colossal wages, while those further down the pecking order must count the pennies.
And while City and Chelsea joined the elite thanks to the largesse of billionaire owners Sheikh Mansour and Roman Abramovich respectively, the FFP rules which came into force in the 2013-14 season prevent any more sugardaddies buying clubs and gatecrashing the party.
In the upper echelons, the FFP rules act as a protection racket while at the bottom end of the table, where Sunderland habitually reside, they were sold as a measure to prevent self-harm.
Portsmouth’s plight showed the dangers of a club overstretching itself in a vain attempt to retain Premier League status, as Pompey twice went into administration and were relegated three times between 2009 and 2013 to end up in League Two.
FFP was the Premier League’s attempt to minimise the chances of another club ending up in Portsmouth’s predicament.
But it leaves a club such as Sunderland, whose squad desperately needs major investment, with a massive problem.
Because they Sunderland can work on ways to raise its turnover, but such improvements will merely be incremental and will take a long time to realise in any event.
The only way the Black Cats can move the needle quickly is by the shrewd buying and selling of players – although the club’s record in that department over the last five years has been truly abysmal.
Money has been frittered away on terrible signings by a series of managers, head coaches, and directors of football, with barely a profit turned on any of them.
In contrast, clubs that get it right, Southampton being the best example in recent seasons, have shown that it is possible to making astute signings and then sell those players on while maintaining a level of success on the pitch.
Sunderland, however, are still paying multi-million pound instalments for the failed signings of the past, many of whom have already left the club.
They are also paying wages, in whole or in part, of players who remain on the books but have no future on Wearside.
This is money that has to be accounted for under the FFP rules, and which therefore leaves little room for manoeuvre next month – at least, unless the club were to offload a player such as Lamine Kone, or risk the wrath of the fans by cashing in on Jordan Pickford.
Sunderland has been so badly-run for so long, that there are no quick fixes. Five years or more of damage cannot be undone overnight.
Bain and manager David Moyes are essentially having to make-do-and-mend for now, while trying to put the club back on an even keel in the longer-term.
The short-term pain is a major source of frustration for the fans but, sadly, it is a necessary evil.
http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/spor...-sunderlands-january-transfer-window-12316221
#3
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Sunderland owner Ellis Short ready to sell the club with David Moyes unable to spend in January transfer window
PUBLISHED: 17:00 GMT, 13 December 2016 | UPDATED: 18:48 GMT, 13 December 2016
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Sunderland boss David Moyes has been told he will not be able to spend in January with owner Ellis Short ready to sell the club.
Black Cats chief executive Martin Bain has warned that transfer funds will be 'very limited' and says the club can no longer attempt to buy their way out of trouble, as they did when investing £15million under Sam Allardyce 12 months ago.
Bain also confirmed that American billionaire Short is willing to listen to offers for the Premier League's bottom team, although he will continue to cover all running costs as well a debt level which stands at around £140m.
Sunderland manager David Moyes will have 'limited' money to spend on players in January
Moyes looks forlorn during the Black Cats' 3-0 defeat by Swansea City on Saturday afternoon
It is a desperate situation for Moyes, who will have to work with the players he has in a bid to escape relegation.
There remains the possibility that West Ham could trigger the £25m release clause in defender Lamine Kone's contract, but even then there is no guarantee that the manager will be able to reinvest all of the money.
Speaking for the first time since joining Sunderland in the summer, Bain was candid in his assessment of where the club is currently at and suggested they were paying the price for past mistakes.
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'In terms of this transfer window in January, we have reached a point where there has to be a time where you don't have that short-term hit to plug the holes in the dam,' said the former Rangers chief executive.
'I'm not saying that Ellis Short is disappearing off into the horizon and is completely closing the purse strings - he is not.
'But the word I've got for you is "limited" - I could probably say "very limited" with regards to the transfer window.
Sunderland's American billionaire owner Ellis Short is ready to sell the North East club
Chief executive Martin Bain insists that Short still has the best welfare of Sunderland at heart
'We are not going to be able to spend to get out of trouble. There will be people who will argue that we did that last year and it worked, I recognise that, but that kind of purchase from the past can lead you to where the club is now. That is the loud and clear message - we cannot spend to get out of trouble.'
Bain insists that Short still has the best welfare of Sunderland at heart but he admits the club is for sale, and we understand the asking price is in the region of £170m.
'If there is a buoyant housing market and someone comes up the garden path saying they are interested in buying your house, you're going to have a chat with them to see what they are going to say,' he added.
'You're not going to lead them straight back down the path. That is the position at the moment - we would listen to offers.
Sunderland spent £15million under Sam Allardyce in January to get out of trouble last term
Moyes (left) talks to his assistant Paul Bracewell at The Academy of Light on Monday
'But I believe Ellis has the interests of the club at heart and he wouldn't turn away anything that is beneficial to Sunderland Football Club.
'He currently covers the shortfalls and that has to be remembered and applauded.
'I'm confident he will continue to fund the club. It would be a misconception to think Ellis isn't putting money into the club.'
Sunderland goalkeeper Jordan Pickford is expected to be the subject of January interest
Pickford (right) makes a save during the Black Cats' last game against Swansea at the weekend
Another prize asset who is sure to be the subject of January interest is England goalkeeper Jordan Pickford. However, it would appear that Moyes would rather than keep ahold of his best players rather than risk being unable to replace them.
'We don't want to get into selling assets in the January transfer window,' said Bain. 'We don't want to be forcing David into a corner, just because of the situation that we have.
'It's not a route we envisage going down. But I'm long enough in the tooth to know that a transfer window can never be prescriptive. And you never know quite where you are at - you might start out and finish up very differently.'
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...Moyes-unable-spend-January.html#ixzz4SkTFaVLx
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
- Sunderland's American billionaire owner Ellis Short is ready to sell the club
- Chief executive Martin Bain has warned that transfer funds will be 'very limited'
- Bain also added that Short is 'willing to listen to offers' for the struggling side
- David Moyes won't be able to spend big in January to get his side out of trouble
PUBLISHED: 17:00 GMT, 13 December 2016 | UPDATED: 18:48 GMT, 13 December 2016
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View comments
Sunderland boss David Moyes has been told he will not be able to spend in January with owner Ellis Short ready to sell the club.
Black Cats chief executive Martin Bain has warned that transfer funds will be 'very limited' and says the club can no longer attempt to buy their way out of trouble, as they did when investing £15million under Sam Allardyce 12 months ago.
Bain also confirmed that American billionaire Short is willing to listen to offers for the Premier League's bottom team, although he will continue to cover all running costs as well a debt level which stands at around £140m.
You must log in or register to see images
Sunderland manager David Moyes will have 'limited' money to spend on players in January
You must log in or register to see images
Moyes looks forlorn during the Black Cats' 3-0 defeat by Swansea City on Saturday afternoon
It is a desperate situation for Moyes, who will have to work with the players he has in a bid to escape relegation.
There remains the possibility that West Ham could trigger the £25m release clause in defender Lamine Kone's contract, but even then there is no guarantee that the manager will be able to reinvest all of the money.
Speaking for the first time since joining Sunderland in the summer, Bain was candid in his assessment of where the club is currently at and suggested they were paying the price for past mistakes.
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'In terms of this transfer window in January, we have reached a point where there has to be a time where you don't have that short-term hit to plug the holes in the dam,' said the former Rangers chief executive.
'I'm not saying that Ellis Short is disappearing off into the horizon and is completely closing the purse strings - he is not.
'But the word I've got for you is "limited" - I could probably say "very limited" with regards to the transfer window.
You must log in or register to see images
Sunderland's American billionaire owner Ellis Short is ready to sell the North East club
You must log in or register to see images
Chief executive Martin Bain insists that Short still has the best welfare of Sunderland at heart
'We are not going to be able to spend to get out of trouble. There will be people who will argue that we did that last year and it worked, I recognise that, but that kind of purchase from the past can lead you to where the club is now. That is the loud and clear message - we cannot spend to get out of trouble.'
Bain insists that Short still has the best welfare of Sunderland at heart but he admits the club is for sale, and we understand the asking price is in the region of £170m.
'If there is a buoyant housing market and someone comes up the garden path saying they are interested in buying your house, you're going to have a chat with them to see what they are going to say,' he added.
'You're not going to lead them straight back down the path. That is the position at the moment - we would listen to offers.
You must log in or register to see images
Sunderland spent £15million under Sam Allardyce in January to get out of trouble last term
You must log in or register to see images
Moyes (left) talks to his assistant Paul Bracewell at The Academy of Light on Monday
'But I believe Ellis has the interests of the club at heart and he wouldn't turn away anything that is beneficial to Sunderland Football Club.
'He currently covers the shortfalls and that has to be remembered and applauded.
'I'm confident he will continue to fund the club. It would be a misconception to think Ellis isn't putting money into the club.'
You must log in or register to see images
Sunderland goalkeeper Jordan Pickford is expected to be the subject of January interest
You must log in or register to see images
Pickford (right) makes a save during the Black Cats' last game against Swansea at the weekend
Another prize asset who is sure to be the subject of January interest is England goalkeeper Jordan Pickford. However, it would appear that Moyes would rather than keep ahold of his best players rather than risk being unable to replace them.
'We don't want to get into selling assets in the January transfer window,' said Bain. 'We don't want to be forcing David into a corner, just because of the situation that we have.
'It's not a route we envisage going down. But I'm long enough in the tooth to know that a transfer window can never be prescriptive. And you never know quite where you are at - you might start out and finish up very differently.'
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...Moyes-unable-spend-January.html#ixzz4SkTFaVLx
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
So essentially, Premier League FFP is intended to prevent clubs soiling themselves, financially speaking. And currently SAFC are waddling around hoping no one notices the massive turd squelching out the leg-hole of their Calvins.
Two sides to this. Whilst he's said that, it may be that the right money is there for the right player. If he says "we've got £40m to spend in January" then everyone adds £15m to their prices. As he's publicised the fact that we have little money, it stops people "Levying" (see what I did there) us!
Just about sums it up in real terms, but had we qualified for just one season in Europe then we could have fallen into the UEFA FFP rules and managed some spending immunity.
More to the point though maybe it illustrates that we cannot be condemned for trying, and are now paying the price for previous pricey bad deals.
Interesting stuff.
Not sure I believe it, as any money spent this January wouldn't show on a balance sheet until the end of next season, when you may have new owners who could argue their way out of it.
Either way, it's looking like slim pickings. Any business selling players surely has to be done early to give you that fighting chance.
Not sure I believe it, as any money spent this January wouldn't show on a balance sheet until the end of next season, when you may have new owners who could argue their way out of it.
Either way, it's looking like slim pickings. Any business selling players surely has to be done early to give you that fighting chance.
That is exactly what crossed my mind too, but some trawling around players whose contracts expire in the Summer of next year may produce a reasonable player or two.
I don't think the rules are exclusive mate teams at the top have to adhere to Prem and UEFA FFP.
City and PSG got busted, with big fines that they've since probably had swept under a rug.
If we don't get some first team quality players in the window then we will get relegated, no doubt about it in my mind. In order to get some first team quality players he's inevitable going to have to spend some money.
Short needs to speculate to accumulate. Selling a football club is never a simple process and will probably take months. If he finds himself with a debt ridden club in the Fizzy Pop league then we're not going to be worth much compared to us being a Premier League club for 2017.
Tight ****ing twat.
Short needs to speculate to accumulate. Selling a football club is never a simple process and will probably take months. If he finds himself with a debt ridden club in the Fizzy Pop league then we're not going to be worth much compared to us being a Premier League club for 2017.
Tight ****ing twat.
I remember the pretty big fines but to the wealth of those clubs they were almost nowt, also the transfer bans on Barca and RMadrid for a season or two.
Without a doubt the two sets of rules will benefit those who regularly qualify for Euros but I am pretty sure their creative accountants and so called "foreign" sales of shirts and other merchandise will take care of income outside of gates etc.
Yeah, I don't think there's ever been a lack of trying. Just a lack of knowing what they were doing.