4 million in 3 days, so 16 million more in 12 days if it keeps moving at the same rate
Off Topic YOUR VOTE COUNTED...
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4 million in 3 days, so 16 million more in 12 days if it keeps moving at the same rate
Corbyn holds crisis talks with shadow cabinet
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None of which undermines the validity of the process that all Remainers took part in happily thinking they would win.
So what's liberal about ignoring the will of the majority of participating voters in one of the highest turn outs in British political history...what's liberal about trying to ignore the will of 17.5 million of your fellow citizens simply because you disagree with their various motives?
Last time I looked the referendum didn't make racism legal. That's what the police and courts are for.
As for the society we all wished we lived in. Name where it exists and we can all move there. Those EU countries we are sad to see go? They've had a growing extreme right long before Brexit. Difference is the society you're all now vilifyng has continued to refuse to elect the like of Farage or the BNP to Westminster never mind even thinking about putting them in govt office. I believe they will continue to do so. Unless they continue to feel completely ignored by mainstream careering politicians. People turn to those they think are listening and the Far Right has always been very good and pretending to do so.
Will the same be true in Eastern Europe, France, Austria, Germany, Spain? Austria already came close. France will come very close...
Historically the Rise of far left and right usually comes about when the political elites divorce themselves from the people. While I voted remain this was my biggest criticism of the current EU (and Westminster )...it's leaders have ignored the very real problems facing the people...They've abandoned the whole point of its existence: to generate that feeling of inclusiveness you talk about. Almost every EU country has a growing segment of their populations feeling abandoned by their political class and until Brexit there seemed to be no indication that class was going to ever listen.
This is always the breeding ground for groups with extremist simplified solutions.
If anyone thinks a forced second referendum will do anything but solidify that feeling of betrayal and isolation they are very naive. The Right will turn round and say "I told you so....they'll do anything to ignore you to keep their own self interest...look our conspiracy theories were true....so now do believe our others theories on the foreigners and certain religions controlling the game?"
I saw a quote from Farage from a few months back. He said the vote had to have a decisive margin. He said it it was 52 - 48 remain, there should be another immediate vote. Bring it ****ing on
Lol...so Farage is a lying racist bastard whos every utterance is vile ****e but now he's being used as justification to be undemocratic? Jesus wept...
And if the vote had gone Remain with the same %...would you have quoted this and called for a second referendum for the same reason? I think not.
Yes
I've lost count of people I've spoken to who only voted 'leave' or didn't bother voting at all because "I didn't think it would actually happen"
Yes
I've lost count of people I've spoken to who only voted 'leave' or didn't bother voting at all because "I didn't think it would actually happen"
That's tough **** for them....it's no different than watching the Tories get into govt and whining that I didn't vote cause I though there's no way people will vote for the Tories...
Never underestimate your opponents .That was what David Cameron did.Yes
I've lost count of people I've spoken to who only voted 'leave' or didn't bother voting at all because "I didn't think it would actually happen"
My point as you well know wasn't to move it was the fact that Brexit is being blamed on something it simply isn't responsible for. And a second referendum even if Remain won wouldn't change that issue...in fact it would make it worse.
Statement from the Vice-Chancellor of the University of Cambridge on the result of the EU Referendum
latest statement on the referendum result:
“Leaving the EU will create significant challenges for universities. Although this is not an outcome that we wished or campaigned for, we respect the decision of the UK electorate. We should remember that leaving the EU will not happen overnight, there will be a gradual exit process with significant opportunities to seek assurances and influence future policy.
“Throughout the transition period our focus will be on securing support that allows our universities to continue to be global in their outlook, internationally networked and an attractive destination for talented people from across Europe. These features are central to ensuring that British universities continue to be the best in the world.
“Our first priority will be to convince the UK Government to takes steps to ensure that staff and students from EU countries can continue to work and study at British universities and to promote the UK as a welcoming destination for the brightest and best minds. They make a powerful contribution to university research and teaching and have a positive impact on the British economy and society. We will also prioritise securing opportunities for our researchers and students to access vital pan-European programmes and build new global networks.”
Professor Sir Leszek Borysiewicz
Earlier statement:
“We note this result with disappointment. My position on this issue is well known, but 52 per cent of voters in the referendum disagreed. We will work with our partners in business, research and academia, as well as our European partners and the government, to understand the implications of this outcome."
Professor Sir Leszek Borysiewicz
latest statement on the referendum result:
“Leaving the EU will create significant challenges for universities. Although this is not an outcome that we wished or campaigned for, we respect the decision of the UK electorate. We should remember that leaving the EU will not happen overnight, there will be a gradual exit process with significant opportunities to seek assurances and influence future policy.
“Throughout the transition period our focus will be on securing support that allows our universities to continue to be global in their outlook, internationally networked and an attractive destination for talented people from across Europe. These features are central to ensuring that British universities continue to be the best in the world.
“Our first priority will be to convince the UK Government to takes steps to ensure that staff and students from EU countries can continue to work and study at British universities and to promote the UK as a welcoming destination for the brightest and best minds. They make a powerful contribution to university research and teaching and have a positive impact on the British economy and society. We will also prioritise securing opportunities for our researchers and students to access vital pan-European programmes and build new global networks.”
Professor Sir Leszek Borysiewicz
Earlier statement:
“We note this result with disappointment. My position on this issue is well known, but 52 per cent of voters in the referendum disagreed. We will work with our partners in business, research and academia, as well as our European partners and the government, to understand the implications of this outcome."
Professor Sir Leszek Borysiewicz
And seriously....that's the only bit of that post that resonated with you Saint?
There are many statements like this.
What they mean is we're on our knees with a gun to our head but there's still a little time left to beg for our lives.
But I believe it is responsible. I've always believed that in social terms (not necessarily trading) leaving the EU will engender an increasingly isolationist, inward-looking viewpoint and a greater mistrust of foreigners - plus a further drift to the US because for some reason they are deemed to be more like us (God help us).
As for the democratic process, let's try a little thought experiment. Let's say that, for whatever reason, a second referendum is held and there's a clear majority for remain. Those who change cite as their reasons a clearer focus due to the first vote and a better understanding of the implications of a withdrawal. Where's your democratic process now?
Do you say you made your bed so you lie in it, or do you allow people to change their minds based on further experience? in which way is democracy best served?
To be fair, I can see an argument for either - I just disagree with the fundamental statement that because it's been done that has to be the end of it.
Democracy is not about the masses deciding the laws. Democracy is about the masses deciding their leaders... who then decide the laws.
Errr...you're describing two very different things...A referendum is direct democracy and what you are trying to describe is representative democracy...what we use to elect governments.
But that's a terrible misrepresentation of representative democracy. We do not just vote in a bunch of people and say "on you go; make some laws now!"
Anyone wanting to be elected under our system has to put forward a case for the laws they wish to enact if only in a general sense and then we decide if we like what we hear. It's called a manifesto and what parties base their moral authority on if they get into government. If they don't live up to that manifesto or their decisions hurt us enough we vote them out.
The people accepted this specific process of direct democracy by participating..
Was it a flawed idea to use this process at all? Most definitely. That doesn't make it undemocratic.