Your Preferred CB Pairing

[Saints_Alive]

I'd take Quarshie and Wood but I think that's more a testament to how we've gotten to this point where that's the preferred pairing. We've had Jack Stephens for 7 odd years add our defence has looked shaky for 7 odd years, move him on.

I've been banging that drum for ages, I just think that we should be doing better than him by now.
I personally voted for Wood and Edwards because I wouldn't discard the latter after one poorish game (he was QPR's POTY last season).
I do think that something is wrong behind the scenes with THB, he had a good season 2 years ago but maybe is a little scarred from last season's debacle.

 

[Libby]

It’s interesting that Wood was signed as a cultured ball player for Martin, but we now see him as a good old ball winning brute!

Unless my mind is playing tricks on me he won loads in the air at Watford and I was quite surprised by it.

Definitely our best CB performance this season excluding Jack imo but it was as the middle CB in a 3 so who knows whether that'll translate.

 

[RSS]

Yeah Wood was exactly what you want from a Championship CB in being strong and aggressive and good in aerial duels. But he looked scared ****less with the ball at his feet under any sort of slight pressure. We need someone like him in the team at the moment. I think in theory THB, Jack and Edwards could all partner him as all are comfortable with the ball, but THB definitely needs a break from the team and Jack will likely take the other spot as captain (+ he's not done too much wrong this season so far). Tough on Edwards who clearly can be very good at this level though. Hope he gets his chance again at some point and shows what he can do.

 

[Saints_Alive]

I will bet that our pairing by season’s end is THB and Edwards

That was the pairing I wanted at the start of the season but something is clearly wrong with THB right now, lacking confidence probably I guess.

 

[Deserana]

I've been banging that drum for ages, I just think that we should be doing better than him by now.
I personally voted for Wood and Edwards because I wouldn't discard the latter after one poorish game (he was QPR's POTY last season).
I do think that something is wrong behind the scenes with THB, he had a good season 2 years ago but maybe is a little scarred from last season's debacle.

I've been banging the same drum, it's why I'm glad Bedders has gone despite some seemingly wishing he was still here. The fact that we haven't moved on from both Centre backs who BOTH took part in BOTH 9-0 losses is ****in nuts. And now Stephens is promoted to Captain and starting every game...
Kevin Danso
Mohammed Salisu
Dynel Simeu
Lyanco
Armel Bella-Kotchap
Duje Ćaleta-Car
Mason Holgate
Taylor Harwood-Bellis
Ronnie Edwards
Nathan Wood
Joachim Kayi Sanda
Joshua Quarshie

That's all the center backs who have signed in the same period that Stephens has been (arguably) considered a starter at the club. Our recruitment is ****ing awful. Notice Bedders isn't the list because we signed him so long ago and still after all these players we had to persist with those two.

 

[tomw24]

I've been banging the same drum, it's why I'm glad Bedders has gone despite some seemingly wishing he was still here. The fact that we haven't moved on from both Centre backs who BOTH took part in BOTH 9-0 losses is ****in nuts. And now Stephens is promoted to Captain and starting every game...
Kevin Danso
Mohammed Salisu
Dynel Simeu
Lyanco
Armel Bella-Kotchap
Duje Ćaleta-Car
Mason Holgate
Taylor Harwood-Bellis
Ronnie Edwards
Nathan Wood
Joachim Kayi Sanda
Joshua Quarshie

That's all the center backs who have signed in the same period that Stephens has been at the club. Our recruitment is ****ing awful.

Yes some have been crap but it's worth pointing out Danso has become an excellent CB and is now at Spurs. Kayi Sanda could yet become an excellent signing - he's certainly got potential. ABK came here full of promise and started off very well before it all went downhill, same with Salisu.

 

[Deserana]

Yes some have been crap but it's worth pointing out Danso has become an excellent CB and is now at Spurs. Kayi Sanda could yet become an excellent signing - he's certainly got potential. ABK came here full of promise and started off very well before it all went downhill, same with Salisu.

It's terrible recruitment, of that list one player went on to be good and it wasn't even at our club because we bought him and didn't play him. ABK has refused to play for us to the point that I've never seen from a player for a long long time. And sorry but after that list I have zero expectations on someone becoming good or us giving him the time to get good. It'll be a bunch of loan spells and then as soon as he starts looking good he will get sold.

 

[tomw24]

It's terrible recruitment, of that list one player went on to be good and it wasn't even at our club because we bought him and didn't play him.

Then it's down to the manager, not the recruitment because our scouts were clearly right about Danso. Salisu and ABK both had the quality to succeed here but both had injury and attitude issues. I don't think the recruitment team can be blamed for those two either.

 

[......loading......]

We used to make personality one of our key attributes when signing players. Lately ours have no personality or they are arrogant beyond belief. That’s not great.

 

[Deserana]

Then it's down to the manager, not the recruitment because our scouts were clearly right about Danso. Salisu and ABK both had the quality to succeed here but both had injury and attitude issues. I don't think the recruitment team can be blamed for those two either.

It's still a recruitment issue because it seems pretty clear for a long time we having being getting defenders who the manager seemingly has no idea how to fit in their system. Like someone pointed out Wood was signed for Martin's system yet it didn't work at all at he was immediately removed from the first 11. A amanger can't magically make someone fit into their style or the team, it's for recruitment to make the right calls in bringing in the right players that fit. It seemed to happen under Martin a fair bit that we would get players that he seemingly had to idea what to do with.

If you're getting 12 Center backs in 6/7 years and not a single one can break into the first team, that is not solely a manager problem, you're clearly buying the wrong players. But I do agree that once they are there it becomes a manager problem and it is very concerning that we can't seem to squeeze any potential out of these players.

Again I will stress that it comes down to a culture we have cultivated where players come in expecting to be moved off again within a year or 2 after a period of good form. That's where the arrogance and lack of personality comes from these players, no one we have seems to want to play for our club and make our club good. They want to come in, get some form and get their move on.

 

[Puck]

It's still a recruitment issue because it seems pretty clear for a long time we having being getting defenders who the manager seemingly has no idea how to fit in their system. Like someone pointed out Wood was signed for Martin's system yet it didn't work at all at he was immediately removed from the first 11. A amanger can't magically make someone fit into their style or the team, it's for recruitment to make the right calls in bringing in the right players that fit. It seemed to happen under Martin a fair bit that we would get players that he seemingly had to idea what to do with.

If you're getting 12 Center backs in 6/7 years and not a single one can break into the first team, that is not solely a manager problem, you're clearly buying the wrong players. But I do agree that once they are there it becomes a manager problem and it is very concerning that we can't seem to squeeze any potential out of these players.

Again I will stress that it comes down to a culture we have cultivated where players come in expecting to be moved off again within a year or 2 after a period of good form. That's where the arrogance and lack of personality comes from these players, no one we have seems to want to play for our club and make our club good. They want to come in, get some form and get their move on.

On Wood, he'd played for Martin for 2 years at Swansea so on that one I don't think you can blame "recruitment" for signing someone who couldn't play Martin's system. Martin knew him and had signed him and played him before.

I agree with you in general terms though. For quite a long time I've been amazed how bad we are at something as basic as defending high or long balls into the box. I now assume Stephens is the playing equivalent of Russell Martin in that he talks a good game (or performs well in training) but can't deliver in matches. I don't think he's ever made 30 league appearances in a season for us but every new manager seems to come in, put Stephens in the first 11 and then drop him after a while when his performances aren't good enough.

 

[Deserana]

On Wood, he'd played for Martin for 2 years at Swansea so on that one I don't think you can blame "recruitment" for signing someone who couldn't play Martin's system. Martin knew him and had signed him and played him before.

I agree with you in general terms though. For quite a long time I've been amazed how bad we are at something as basic as defending high or long balls into the box. I now assume Stephens is the playing equivalent of Russell Martin in that he talks a good game (or performs well in training) but can't deliver in matches. I don't think he's ever made 30 league appearances in a season for us but every new manager seems to come in, put Stephens in the first 11 and then drop him after a while when his performances aren't good enough.

I completely forgot about his spell under Martin elsewhere, my bad but I do agree with every else. There is a reason why that consistently has happened and why he has been sent off on loan multiple times. He just looks like a bag of nerves to me and that has never changed. He strikes me as the number 2 in the CB pairing, if he had a peak Fonte next him he'd probably be great but it feels like he is expected to be the Fonte and he is just nowhere near that.

The man has been at the club since 2011 and we are desperately lacking leaders on the pitch and for him to be our Captain and main CB and yet when we go a goal behind it's like everyone is looking around for some guidance and it just isn't coming from him, he is just not good enough, even at Championship level he is repeatedly outplayed.

This also speaks to a wider concern about promotion. If we go up this season we are going up with the exact same defence that were there last season other than Quarshie who can't get into the team. If we go up this year we are still looking so weak in defence that we would need to buy an entire new back line.

 

[st_brendy]

That was the pairing I wanted at the start of the season but something is clearly wrong with THB right now, lacking confidence probably I guess.

And tbf, I still think it has the potential to be our best CB pairing - so I don't think that you wrong to want it from the start.

But right now, it's difficult to see how we could go with it because as you say, THB isn't right. A spell out of the side might be good for him.

 

[Libby]

Back 3 for me. We've looked better going forward with it this season.

 

[Saints_Alive]

Back 3 for me. We've looked better going forward with it this season.

I'd be happier with a back 4 as I think it gives us more attacking options, it was more about the personnel tonight and who we were playing than the system imo (teams tend to sit back against us in the league).
But if it is 3CBs then the ones that started tonight should play. Oh, and Adarma is a much better Captain than Jack.

 

[Libby]

I'd be happier with a back 4 as I think it gives us more attacking options, it was more about the personnel tonight than the system imo.
But if it is 3CBs then the ones that started tonight should play. Oh, and Adarma is a much better Captain than Jack.

We've barely created anything in the two matches we played a back four. Small sample size admittedly but we've definitely looked more dangerous with wing backs.

 

[Saints_Alive]

We've barely created anything in the two matches we played a back four. Small sample size admittedly but we've definitely looked more dangerous with wing backs.

It's just personal preference, I think we will need that extra creative player in the long run.

 

[Saints_Alive]

The most passionate and intense performance of the the season with a different Captain?....

 

[Puck]

Back 3 for me. We've looked better going forward with it this season.

Agree with this. For now anyway.

Still keeps talking about the players being unfamiliar with each other so fine, keep working on the 4-2-3-1 formation in training and introduce it when the players know each other better.

 

[Libby]

Agree with this. For now anyway.

Still keeps talking about the players being unfamiliar with each other so fine, keep working on the 4-2-3-1 formation in training and introduce it when the players know each other better.

The only issue with the back 3 thinking about it is that there's no real place for Azaz in the team and to a lesser extent Fellows.