Would Moyes have done better with this squad of players?
- Thread starter Treble
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Treble showing his Mancunian charm!
That's fine. But don't hand it out if you can't take it back!..
Thank **** Van Gaal turned us down, otherwise we may have been calling for AVB to return!
I appreciated your previous post but have no fcking idea what that's supposed to mean
You're more than happy to wum away about Kane or anything else that doesn't concern Utd. As soon as a dig at Utd is made, you don't seem to see the funny side!
Maybe he has a great record, but it sure wasn't gained playing attractive football. I can see why Utd fans are getting pissed off with him.
Like AVB, you can get away with a large amount of boring the arse off the fans so long as you're winning, but when you're not!....
Eh? That's a complete nonsense. I'm the one criticising Van Gaal and I've not objected to anyone doing the same
You made a post about not caring. I responded by saying I couldn't a 5hit if you did or not. Perhaps it's you who is happy to give it out but can't take it back?FWIW I'm a firm believer that you should learn to laugh at yourself occasionally, as much as anyone else. I think I've demonstrated that enough re: United's misfortunes during my time, as well as when laughing at any rival's.
Treble you need to have a few of them indian sweets again, load up the utd videos of Fergie and relax. Utd will return to their former glory but you was spoilt by having the greatest british manager ever, and his Fledglings , you have to now deal with a few years of utter ****e football!
Mate, I dont think any United fan that feels the way I do, is doing so bcos of past glory. For me it's about stifling creativity. About playing expansive, attacking football and most importantly, getting the very best out of (what I believe) to be a very good squad of players. If this was the 2013 squad I could understand what's happening, but this is the best midfield we've had in 5 years and some raw talent coming through in attack. Granted LVG has improved our defence and I applaud him for that, but the rest from him is muck.
It's not about a choice between good performances OR results. That's a Skysports lazy mentality fed to support the Sam Allardyce followers of this world. I believe football is about trying to achieve both together. And if you fail trying, so be it. Playing badly, being outclassed, being second best is something we can all understand happens. What Van Gaal demonstrates on a football pitch is the coward's approach. That is something no fan should accept. To me, that's selling your soul for 3 points.
One question to Treble:
If you had lined up the squad left by Ferguson in 2013 like you have above, would anyone have said that it was very much worse than the current one?
Degea, Vidic, Rio, Evra, januzaj, welbeck,Nani, RVP, Hernandez, Rooney, and the other players who won the title for Ferguson.
I honestly did not think that the players were that **** and yet Moyes contrived to finish 7th breaking unwanted records on a weekly basis.
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I want to neg rep you for speaking of fat sam in a negative manner or having issue with the Pulis approach of organisation and results first, but I can't (as they removed that option from the forum)!
If I was a Utd fan, I would have a similar view, as for the money spent, the players available, the traditions, I feel you're being cheated as fans, as you're being forced to watch a brand of football which won't bring any success, while it hinders the progression of attacking players, not just youngsters, but experienced players who are clearly frustrated at their performance.
Van Gaal is a stubborn, experienced manager focused solely on results. He is wrong for Utd as your club need a manager that can implement a brand of football to not just excite the fans, but also the players and with that bring success.
Tim Sherwood it is then!
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That's a fair point, the players you mention I rated (although Rio was finished by that point) but I always believed that our midfield was shot to bits for quite some time. The fact Scholes came out of retirement was a damning indictment of that. As a result it was obvious that Fergie made us punch above our weight. I was also criticial that he didn't choose to rebuild that midfield when there were chances to do so. Transfer window after transfer window I'd get fcked off with the "no value in the market" quickly followed by the "we've done our business" a day after July 7th.
So when Moyes came in I was worried bcos I didn't know whether he was up to the task anyway, let alone able to make that squad punch above their weight in the same way. When I started seeing the football it was obvious he wasn't going to manage that. But the fact is we have been rebuilding, and done so with some very tidy additions, particularly in midfield. If they didn't play under a Man United crest I would still say this midfield on paper is arguably the best and most balanced in the league at the moment. The worst thing about it is, that if we're not careful, we'll contrive to underachieve in relatively the same manner as Moyes, but whereas they fell to 7th, we'll finish 4th which relatively speaking is just as bad imo in his 2nd season and the players we've added.
LVG has to take responsibility for the way we play but on the other hand he also takes responsibility for the recruitment and sale of the players too. So to say the players are great but not giving any credit to LVG is a bit disingenuous.
What the Moyes episode showed us that the players need to play for their manager. Wouldn't we have had the same problems as in 13/14 in that the experienced players had no respect for Moyes and had really under par performances? So that in practice, the same squad will probably be at 7th or worse in the current league ?
The other point which seems to escape his hardcore critics us that it is not that easy to win points in the premiership. Because United have spent a fair bit it is taken for granted that points are easy to get and that the team will be at the top. Ask the likes of Chelsea, Newcastle Villa this season. We all would have given anything to get wins at OT when Moyes was around
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You can't commend him for doing his job - for what any other manager would have done. Rebuilding the midfield was needed. Herrera was on the cards anyway and Mata was already there. The other two he bought, but somebody else would have brought in theirs instead. What I do recognise moreso is the way Van Gaal's giving our youth a chance. That is typically United so fair play to him for that.
I don't know the ins and outs of what happened to cause the players to lose faith in Moyes. But how can we know what would have happened if he'd brought in his own players. I suspect he would have stood a better chance. The biggest problem for Moyes was the way we were conceding. That was mainly down to our midfield than our defence imo. We had no protection and tbh as the season wore on, Moyes himself seemed to want to bypass it bcos he was afraid it couldn't hold on to the ball. I don't think he'd have that problem with this squad. Instead, what we'd have now with Moyes is probably still the endless crossing, but where he may have had more success is the ability to get the ball forward quicker.
Moyes would have lost a few more but won a few more, the end result being better off overall
The draws are going to kill Van Gaal
The odd draw here and there is good for keeping unbeaten runs going but [HASHTAG]#consistent[/HASHTAG] drawing is relegation form and 6 of the last 9 is becoming quite [HASHTAG]#consistent[/HASHTAG]
Draw your next 2 games (West Ham playing away are doing well, and Wolfsburg) and you're likely out of the CL and out of the top 4
The draws are going to kill Van Gaal
The odd draw here and there is good for keeping unbeaten runs going but [HASHTAG]#consistent[/HASHTAG] drawing is relegation form and 6 of the last 9 is becoming quite [HASHTAG]#consistent[/HASHTAG]
Draw your next 2 games (West Ham playing away are doing well, and Wolfsburg) and you're likely out of the CL and out of the top 4
But what Moyes failed to do. Don't forget that Moyes binned a move SAF had put in place for Thiago, and Herrera had a release clause in place in summer 2013 as well, which Moyes completely failed to activate. So whether Moyes would ever have been decisive and skilled enough in the transfer market to assemble a squad of this quality is also up for debate.
Tbh I don't think Moyes would have done better with this squad, as he inherited a squad which was admittedly worse in midfield, but better stocked in attack and defence with Vidic and Evra still playing well in 2013 and RVP doing fine until Moyes decided it would be a great idea to "overtrain him to build up his fitness" and promptly broke him. Moyes would probably have shown more ambition and tried to win more games, but would invariably have done it in his usual one dimensional way or either cross the opposition to death or lump the long balls to Fellaini, both of which didn't work to any extent in his season.
I think Moyes could have scraped this squad into the top four, but I do still think that LVG has a chance, albeit a slender one, of competing for and potentially winning the title despite the negative approach he uses to get results.
I reckon the quote is probably from Depay. He's the only player in the squad atm who would be looking for excuses around why he's not performing, and the style of the manager is the obvious one. Worth noting there were plenty of other similar comments floating around the press about Moyes, and even the occasional one about SAF when a player failed to make the grade under him, so the fact Depay should be taking responsibility for his own poor form doesn't mean he will do.
Who doesn't long for the days of getting smashed 3-0 at home to City and Liverpool in consecutive games?!!
Be honest, who, last night dreamt of 82 glorious crosses? Suicide bombers dream of 72 Virgins while United fans dream of 82 crosses.
Here's a better question. Would we be top if we had Barcelona's attack? Yes.
Be honest, who, last night dreamt of 82 glorious crosses? Suicide bombers dream of 72 Virgins while United fans dream of 82 crosses.
Here's a better question. Would we be top if we had Barcelona's attack? Yes.