Would Anyone Be Upset If...

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MountwaySaint

MountwaySaint

Active Member
Feb 5, 2014
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We got a manager who blooded more of the academy players, perhaps we might spend little money in the summer, and JWP & HR (among others perhaps) become starting-11 players. But, it meant that we didn't do so well this season?
Let's say we finish safely out of trouble, maybe bottom of the top-half, but not enough for Europe.

Obviously it doesn't have to be this way, we could blood them and still be successful, but what if we weren't as successful? Would it be worth it?

I've loved all the success of the last few seasons, but I've been having misgivings about the ruthless pursuit of success that results in no academy players being in the team...
Maybe it's the price of success, but I've always been so fiercely proud of how we do things that I seem to get this twinge of something akin to guilt when we have no academy youngsters in the team.
 
We would have several Academy players in the team if they hadn't been filched....still have two that get some game time. No problem with Academy players being blooded as part of their development, but pretty sure the club won't want us to be less competitive. The plan is Europe every season.
 
fran-MLs little camera said:
We would have several Academy players in the team if they hadn't been filched....still have two that get some game time. No problem with Academy players being blooded as part of their development, but pretty sure the club won't want us to be less competitive. The plan is Europe every season.
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What he said.
If they are good enough then yeah,play them
 
Its a point well raised. I didn't expect us to have such a strong season. We finished the season so well that the bar has been raised to an unprecedented level.
But we cannot accept lowering our targets, not while we have such special players like Mane & VVD. We have to push on, or it will be harder to keep them. Really hope a couple of the kids can kick on next year, but boy will they need to up their game. I believe they can, but the new gaffer will be so important.
 
Any academy player will have to be quite special to play at PL standard.
Recipe for disaster if we play them just for the hell of it. If we had any up to the required standard Koeman would of played them.
 
fran-MLs little camera said:
We would have several Academy players in the team if they hadn't been filched....still have two that get some game time. No problem with Academy players being blooded as part of their development, but pretty sure the club won't want us to be less competitive. The plan is Europe every season.
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It seems even if they've been nurtured since eight years old, they can't get away quick enough.

If they're good enough they're old enough as they say. Perhaps Koeman tipped too far the other way for some, but academy players were not entirely shunned and the academy has gone through lean spells before.

Oakley and Bridge were the only two players who made a serious impact between the Le tiss/shearer era and Walcott/Bale crop and that's about 20 years.

I guess a good question to ask is would you have Romeu? Many of us probably would have let Reed be back up last summer
 
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But also important to note that to get the best out of an academy player once he's ready for first team standard, he should play alongside 10 first team regulars.

What happens all too often is that they get played with the fringe players in some League Cup game, all at the same time, and so it feels disjointed and as if they're not ready after all.

E.g. Harrison Reed looked great when he played a couple of games 2 seasons ago (especially that game home v Everton), but makes very little impact in the games he plays where there's wholesale changes. Sam Gallagher has PL goals to his name, and looked dangerous v Arsenal at home, because he was the striker of a team with 10 other regulars in.

They can't all get put in at the same time, it needs to be more staggered
 
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fran-MLs little camera said:
Reed should have had more chances...he looked pretty decent when he played. Didn't deserve to fall off the grid.
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I don't disagree, but it's easier to say than to do.

Who would he have come in for? He's competing with Wanyama, Romeu, Classie, JWP, Davis for a spot in the 3 midfielders.....would have been a big call from Ron to put him in ahead of any of them.

Could argue he didn't need to sign Romeu or Classie, but I am glad they did sign. Might get more chances if Wanyama leaves....
 
I think academy players should be played, or 'blooded', when they are good enough to compete for the spot. We shouldn't play them just for the sake of it.

So yes, I would be less happy if we played academy players over better established players and we slid down the table.
 
Did I see, somewhere, that Koeman prevented the U21s joining the first team squad, for training sessions?
For me, training with the first team squad is essential to help develop the younger players, plus it gives them a shop window to show their worth against our best players, albeit in a training environment.
 
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I'd be delighted to get a new manager that is "on message" with the club's philosophy of producing first team players from the academy. I believe that it is a big part of the self sustaining business model and as long as we are playing good entertaining football and respected throughout the football fraternity I will be happy.
We are never going to be a mega rich club under Katharina but we will keep on growing and continue to be the very model of a well run club.
 
St Badger said:
Did I see, somewhere, that Koeman prevented the U21s joining the first team squad, for training sessions?
For me, training with the first team squad is essential to help develop the younger players, plus it gives them a shop window to show their worth against our best players, albeit in a training environment.
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Yep, very rarely you saw academy players with the first team. 9 times out of 10 it only happened because of injuries.

With Poch & Adkins (i think!), the U21s always trained with the first team, except for match preparations.
 
It's not about a single season. It's about the next ten or twenty. The academy's reputation is strong right now, but this will become less so should no academy players make the first team for a year or two. If we have 3-4 players playing regularly, then other young footballers will be desperate to join our academy. Having one or two lower finishes occasionally, is not such a big deal if the long term affect is that that in 6-7 years time we have an academy that rivals the like of Ajax, Sporting Lisbon, and Barcelona.
 
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fran-MLs little camera said:
We would have several Academy players in the team if they hadn't been filched....still have two that get some game time. No problem with Academy players being blooded as part of their development, but pretty sure the club won't want us to be less competitive. The plan is Europe every season.
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Absolutely. No, I don't want the club to be less competitive either just so that some Academy players can be deemed good enough to play. It's up to the academy structure to come up with players so good that they can't be left out. The problem so far has been that Saints improvement has been so meteoric in the last few years that the academy players have got themselves somewhat left behind in terms of quality. Also, Saints have to learn how to keep the academy starlets once they become good enough for the first team.


.
 
Didn't help that Koeman publicly criticised the Academy lads....said there was no one at U21 level who could step up. Even if true, can't be good for morale of the players or the training staff to have that said by the manager.
 
fran-MLs little camera said:
Didn't help that Koeman publicly criticised the Academy lads....said there was no one at U21 level who could step up. Even if true, can't be good for morale of the players or the training staff to have that said by the manager.
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Agree - there was no need for that at all. If that was his opinion, it doesn't need to be made public.
 
fran-MLs little camera said:
Didn't help that Koeman publicly criticised the Academy lads....said there was no one at U21 level who could step up. Even if true, can't be good for morale of the players or the training staff to have that said by the manager.
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I agree. I think they should all train together, but, having been to a few U21 games last season, I was disappointed with Reed and Gallagher especially. Neither of them looked sharp or up to it, in the way they had the previous season. I believe that it would be good for some of these players to go out on loan with a good championship club to really get their game improved. I don't think the U21 league is strong enough for a step up to the premier league.
Guess we'll see with a new manager, but there's so much money now in the prem, the club won't want to risk anything, so loans become more critical.
 
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