Off Topic World War 3?

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Redprintt said:
Who's suggesting we're taking them on? All we're proposing is economic sanctions and supplying defensive anti-tank missiles to Ukraine.
Daft to suggest otherwise.
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I wasn’t suggesting it - I was staying it couldn’t be done - even if we wanted to.
Sanctions won’t hurt them - they’ve been self-sufficient since 1917. They’ve also just finalised a trade pact with China.
We’re impotent- all we can do is squeal and cry about it - and cut off their supply of Marmite and Scotch Whisky.
 
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This may not be a popular opinion, but I do have some sympathy with Russia.
Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, and the likes of the Baltic states becoming independent to its west, Russia is perhaps rightly annoyed with NATO carrying out exercises in the Baltic and Black Sea and feeling it's being surrounded and threatened.
This standoff and mini war/invasion on the Ukraine border with the amassing of Russian troops is not a recent development has been going on since 2014.
Putin and many millions of Russians also see the Ukraine, and particularly Kiev, as the home of the Russian Orthodox religion and Kiev was the only major cultural and religious city in the east back in the days when Moscow was just a village.
Just saying.
 
Angelicnumber16 said:
This may not be a popular opinion, but I do have some sympathy with Russia.
Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, and the likes of the Baltic states becoming independent to its west, Russia is perhaps rightly annoyed with NATO carrying out exercises in the Baltic and Black Sea and feeling it's being surrounded and threatened.
This standoff and mini war/invasion on the Ukraine border with the amassing of Russian troops is not a recent development has been going on since 2014.
Putin and many millions of Russians also see the Ukraine, and particularly Kiev, as the home of the Russian Orthodox religion and Kiev was the only major cultural and religious city in the east back in the days when Moscow was just a village.
Just saying.
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It's the Russian ruling elite that feel threatened not the populace. The Russian people want nothing to do with with war or any conflict that would jeopardise their current living standards which improved with the demise of the Soviet state under Gorbachev and Yeltsin only to stagnate since.

The truth of the matter is that Putin and his hard line party members are **** scared of closer association with the West because it could mean the end for them. The political change has brought huge benefits to the people of the Baltic States and former USSR satellite countries bordering Western Europe. They'd be turfed out by any form of democratic voting system, and will fight tooth and nail to prevent that - even to provoke conflict in the guise of defending against "Western agression".

The only downside I can see about Ukraine being totally "Westernised" is that it would give the Yanks the opportunity to expand their tortuous web around the world and interfere with local political decisions to further their own interests.
 
bcfcredandwhite said:
seriously though, the Russians have been building up for this for decades whereas we’ve been cutting our armed services to the bone.
We’ve no chance taking them on face to face.
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Russia is communism = JOBS FOR ALL ......... Quite a few years ago there was a TV programme on RUSSIA. the one bit that stuck in my mind was the tractors! they supplied jobs for 000's . pre drone so must have used a helicopter for the middle part of the sequence.
ENTER the steel mill where masses of recycled steel was mixed with raw and poured into different shapes etc ....
ENTER THE FACTORY along with a casting ..... and facing you were rows of production, no robots. one of the largest castings was the bare bone skeleton of the tractor to be. OVER a couple of days in this massive factory loads of the bits were added, mostly cast very nearby.
END OF PRODUCTION LINE ... AND TEST CENTRE BIT .... tractor given test/task's and parked outside along with about 50 or more brightly painted tractors. A number of transporters loaded up, and the camera[in heli:] zoomed in and followed it gradually panning out as it flew over row upon row of rusty tractors, till after maybe a mile they had gradually gone from rust to brightly painted [ I assume at some point the start of this parking area would be more of the model they had started parking there!] A bus collected the drivers, and took them to the start of the rusty ones, who each selected one and drove it to a yard outside the steel mill, where certain bits stripped off before being melted down and process restarted.
NOW Modern day tech reduces need for people to be so hands on .. so a lot with no jobs .. conscription being the main employer .. for 1 year. have a friend who had to do 2 years, [90's] but since been reduced. most troops sent to borders / war were conscripts... regular troops kept back, over saw them. MILITARY is best jobs in russia!!! conscript but sign on for x years! [usually life ] avoid the brunt of war / battles ! Thats one of the reasons Putin does what he does .. to stop boredom!
 
realred1952 said:
Russia is communism = JOBS FOR ALL ......... Quite a few years ago there was a TV programme on RUSSIA. the one bit that stuck in my mind was the tractors! they supplied jobs for 000's . pre drone so must have used a helicopter for the middle part of the sequence.
ENTER the steel mill where masses of recycled steel was mixed with raw and poured into different shapes etc ....
ENTER THE FACTORY along with a casting ..... and facing you were rows of production, no robots. one of the largest castings was the bare bone skeleton of the tractor to be. OVER a couple of days in this massive factory loads of the bits were added, mostly cast very nearby.
END OF PRODUCTION LINE ... AND TEST CENTRE BIT .... tractor given test/task's and parked outside along with about 50 or more brightly painted tractors. A number of transporters loaded up, and the camera[in heli:] zoomed in and followed it gradually panning out as it flew over row upon row of rusty tractors, till after maybe a mile they had gradually gone from rust to brightly painted [ I assume at some point the start of this parking area would be more of the model they had started parking there!] A bus collected the drivers, and took them to the start of the rusty ones, who each selected one and drove it to a yard outside the steel mill, where certain bits stripped off before being melted down and process restarted.
NOW Modern day tech reduces need for people to be so hands on .. so a lot with no jobs .. conscription being the main employer .. for 1 year. have a friend who had to do 2 years, [90's] but since been reduced. most troops sent to borders / war were conscripts... regular troops kept back, over saw them. MILITARY is best jobs in russia!!! conscript but sign on for x years! [usually life ] avoid the brunt of war / battles ! Thats one of the reasons Putin does what he does .. to stop boredom!
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And they make **** cars
 
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This is as serious as it gets-we are on the verge of world war 3 without a doubt.

The consequences are horrific -however there is a famous saying Mankind will destroy itself come the end.
 
apparently russia will, out of the blue, send in troops para? and take over the capital. no battle no war!
 
Angelicnumber16 said:
This may not be a popular opinion, but I do have some sympathy with Russia.
Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, and the likes of the Baltic states becoming independent to its west, Russia is perhaps rightly annoyed with NATO carrying out exercises in the Baltic and Black Sea and feeling it's being surrounded and threatened.
This standoff and mini war/invasion on the Ukraine border with the amassing of Russian troops is not a recent development has been going on since 2014.
Putin and many millions of Russians also see the Ukraine, and particularly Kiev, as the home of the Russian Orthodox religion and Kiev was the only major cultural and religious city in the east back in the days when Moscow was just a village.
Just saying.
Click to expand...

Funnily enough, I kind of feel the same way regarding China and Taiwan.
Taiwan WAS originally part of china - like the Isle of Wight is part of Britain.
During the communist revolution, Chiang Kai Chek's forces fled there to escape from Mao's communists.
The western world now recognises Taiwan as an independent nation - and vows to protect it.
Basically it would be the same as us having a civil war here in the UK, with the beaten side escaping to the IoW and then the Americans recognising the IoW as independent and sending gunboats to stop the UK reclaiming it.

ANY invasion however (whether the Ukraine by the Russians, or Taiwan by the Chinese) would be a highly dangerous act - whether the cause can be empathied with or not.
 
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