Red Bull were a breath of fresh air, until they acquired a sense of self accomplishment and belief that they should always win and the sport was out to get them when they didn't.
The consensus seems to be "they've been good for the sport, but their attitude stinks and it would be nice to see the back of that". But the attitude seems to come mainly from one or two people. Maybe all we need is for those personalities to be replaced? Then maybe Red Bull can stay, with a more healthy attitude, their employees can keep their jobs and we retain a strong team in the sport. I guess if Red Bull do walk away, many of their employees will be sending their CVs to Haas.
Maybe they don't sleep and stay awake drinking energy drinks and that's distorted their personality? Horners feet are always twitching, that's a tell tail sign.
I wouldn't mind if it meant a manufacturer team like Renault cam back - but losing Red Bull and bringing in a non-competitive team would be bad for F1. Its already struggling without it being ditched by another group of people.
Ferrari threatened to quit unless they got their own way Mercedes threatened to quit unless they got their own way Both those teams got their own way And both those teams can be proven to have cheated. no condemnation for them? of course not.
At a personal level, no, I wouldn't care if Red Bull left. Similarly, I wouldn't have minded if Ferrari had left either*, since it was the team which proved the value of such tactics, paving the way for any would-be copy-cat! (Red Bull, enter stage left…)… Red Bull has always modelled itself on Ferrari. Therefore, for me at least, it was only a matter of 'when', rather than 'if' this threat became manifest. My words to Horner, Marko and Mateshitz are simple: "go on then!". In an idealised world, there is no place for such arrogance. If I ran the show, no team would threaten to leave. Why? Because it would have already agreed to the stipulation that any such threat, if proven as such, would be a breach of contract. Therefore a team either knuckles-down to the job, or it leaves the show. Goodbye. *I'd actually hoped Ferrari would leave on every occasion they made the threat. I believe F1 would have become a more sustainable thing if it had had some serious earthworks; i.e. a more level playing field! If Ferrari had actually been shown the door, it would have reduced (or even negated) threats to the existence of less well-funded teams. I say this in the past and present tenses: unfortunately, the politics at the top of F1 were (and still are) far too intricate (i.e. reciprocated interests and investment) for this to (have) become a reality. And even if F1 had collapsed, after a brief period of regrouping, it would have emerged Phoenix-like under a new banner; and most importantly, a healthier ground for competition which would see an increasing rather than decreasing world-wide audience. P.S. Mercedes' 'threat' to quit was very different: it was an objection to the proposal of perpetuating a playing field already unbalanced in Ferrari's and Red Bull's favour; financial inequality regardless of success through competition (i.e. a 'turn-up' fee). Mercedes, like all other teams (but perhaps best exemplified most recently by Honda), have put up with changing goal-posts without complaint. On the other (under?) hand, Ferrari and Red Bull have sought preferential treatment – and even to change the rules! – at every turn, "or else…".
If Red Bull were to leave the sport right now, it would be absolutely devastating for F1 They know this and that's why they're threatening to leave rather than just leaving. They'll stamp their feet until they at least get some concessions because they're in a powerful position to do so. Do I want them to leave? Hell no! I do however wish they'd get their heads down and sort out their car.
Perhaps that's part of my point, Bhaji. I know this may sound (perhaps surprisingly?) radical from me, but essentially, F1 needs to become 'devastated' before it can regroup into something more sustainable. Until then, things will continue to exist in the almost-never-never-land of semi-limbo – and those who scoop its cream, indefinitely milking its base… Sooner or later, things will have to change. Under current persuasions, F1 (yes, Ferrari and any young pretender, this includes you) will ultimately self-destruct by eliminating its opposition, leaving a very poor show (shell?) and nothing to sell itself with. So, change is prescribed in order to preserve. It's like a cancer: live with reduced life-expectancy, or go for a beneficial alternative, sooner rather than later. Kicking Red Bull out now (or at least totally ignoring such pathetic bleating and publicly calling "bluff'!") will remove an infected spleen (or temporary red wart) rather than the vital heart; and after recuperating from the initial hit, I believe F1 would emerge in better shape…
To be fair though Cosi... It's not just Red Bull that's the issue. Any big corporation involved in F1 is going to ultimately bugger off or try hold the sport to ransom if their results are seen to be hurting their brand. We need more pure independent teams and engine manufacturer's to return. Unfortunately they have been mostly bought up or can't get a foothold in the sport. F1 is too much of a marketing opportunity/tool now, its no longer the pure motor sport it once was.
Yep, I agree with both of you here. Just contrast the fortunes of Sauber, for example. They've built a good car this year and are doing much better than anyone expected but because of the inequalities in the sport they are mired in legal nightmares and struggling even to survive. I hope they have maximum success this year because it could be life or death for them and I know Bernie would rather see the back of them too. Red Bull are a bunch of spoilt brats in comparison, with Bernie's patronage to boot, and I have no sympathy for them.
Most organisations will try to preserve the status quo, until the pain of that status quo is greater than the pain of change. For Bernie & co, this means a race series that's lucrative, prestigious, and exciting (probably in that order). Smaller teams are expendable because they don't bring prestige. Gimmicks are explored in an attempt to increase the excitement (precarious tyre compounds) or prolong it (double points). Bigger teams are indulged because, without them, F1 loses prestige and advertising. Would Ferrari really leave F1? With their F1 heritage, and what F1 means to their brand and their fans, I can't see it. That would cause unacceptable damage to their brand. Sadly, Bernie is too scared to call Ferrari's bluff, and they know it. Red Bull is much more diverse, and has a vast array of sporting and marketing alternatives. They could walk away, and might well do so, based on their own assessments of brand prestige vs investment. I think Red Bull has a stronger hand than Ferrari. What would it do to F1 if Red Bull left? Bernie is too scared to find out, and Red Bull knows it. Mercedes could make a credible threat threat to leave, but none of the other major teams can. They don't have enough options outside of F1. I don't know where I'm going with this.
Yes, I think that's a very perceptive assessment and I would be repeating myself to say yet again that it's is the corruption of the status quo which is mutated and stretched towards breaking point. I think you are very clear and if you don't know where you are going with this that is probably because the sport lacks decent leadership and doesn't really know where it is going itself beyond greed for greed's sake. I don't expect much to change while Bernie remains in power and he will not let go willingly either.
Someone would takeover the Red Bull team. They bought it from Ford/Jaguar after all so it's not like it was a new start-up team when Red Bull took them over. Likewise Mercedes, That came from Brawn/Honda/BAR chain of teams. If either were to go, there would be no void as such as the public fall out from them closing the teams completely, rather than just stepping away from the sport and letting someone else take over, would be massive.
Red Bull have invested heavily in drivers, way and beyond a lot of the other teams - that has to be one positive?
Red Bull and Honda should both be considering walking away. Both teams want to win, and want to win racing, but the FIA stance ensures that can't happen for perhaps another year or more. With regulations in place that don't allow teams to win by actually driving , instead we have a completely artificial competition with fuel limits, tyre changes, pit stop strategies, phoney overtaking restrictions and worst of all, Engine development stops. So Mercedes got the new Engine sorted first, well done them. Their reward is being handed 2 World Championships, while the regulations ensure that everyone else needs those 2 years to catch up, when they could do so in months if allowed. And when they do catch up, what then ?The FIA change the Engine specs and the whole shabby circus starts again? Why would anyone with a brain keep pouring money down the F1 black hole of certain loss, trying to be competitive with both hands tied behind their back? Renaults problems are not just reliability, they simply don't have their engine design right and can't do anything about it. Ferrari have better reliability but not enough power. As I understand it, the Rules confine the manufacturer to "reliability" changes, so they can't redesign their engines to bring them up to the performance levels they are potentially capable of. Not without cheating or stretching the "reliability " issue to the point of stupidity. I agree that Mercedes should have a short term advantage, and the others have to work "hard" to catch up, but they can't if there is a flaw in their Homologated design. That's what's ridiculous, and why F1 is losing punters in droves. Ferrari and Mercedes have both cheated in the past, both whinged , both got exactly what they want and the new rules have done absolutely bugger all to "level the playing field". I wonder what the majority sentiment would be on here if Hamilton was still at McLaren ?
They have, but in reality it's only found a couple of gems vs the number of drivers it's thrown on the scrap heap. Drivers are never in short supply...
