O'Shea and kaboul is an allright partnership, not brilliant but ok. Take away JOS and your left with a defensive partnership of Kaboul and Coates (nightmare) or Brown and one of them. Brown is even more past it than O'Shea.
Sorry mate You male it sound like a dinosaur is our saviour. That says a lot if prehistoric beasts are seen as saviours.
Dont misunderstand me, we need a couple of defenders in the Jan window. However, based on the defenders we currently have, JoS has to start when available. He might be getting on, but he is the only one capable of commanding the defence and getting them to retain any kind of shape. Saying we should have got rid during the summer is madness.
Jos is a great leader but a nightmare defender, as he has no pace he cant close down , cant head a ball to save his life , his advance for every single corner is purely to avoid any involvement in a breakaway as he is static at best, and I have yet to see him get on the end of a cross into either box the man is a joke, having said that it seems like the rest of them have not got a brain to share between them, and need to be constantly told where and how to play, This is BSA's priority and to solve it now for less than 50m will take some doing. The summer window is starting to look like a short sighted disaster by all concerned. I think the clubs that came up have surprised a lot of people including myself, but the second half of the season will be the test, I just hope that we are in a no worse a possition than we are at present when the window opens, if we are I fear the worst,for imo unless we sign at least three new defenders, we are sunk.
**** me a fair bit of knee jerking going on here like, was anyone expecting us to be solid at the back with both of our first choice centre halfs unavailable leaving us playing a rightback there as well as the old timer we have to fill the squad in his first game since May. The two games previous to yesterday we had conceded 1 goal and that was very dubious and should not have stood, don't get me wrong our defence aren't the best and there is an awful lot of room for improvement but from Sam's first 2 games there was plenty of encouragement that they can be worked into an adequate defensive unit. I'm sure that if Sam's got some money to spend and there are decent players available in January he'll look to strengthen. I have to says it's a bit embarrassing how some people seem to find a way to blame O'Shea for any problem that Sunderland have, Aye he's not Kompany, Vidic or Pique and he does make a few mistakes but he makes us better defensively when he plays.
Its not really about OShea and Kaboul they are fine, but they are both injured out problem is they are both getting older so will be injured more and we need quality replacing OShea and Quality to come in when Kaboul is injured. We need to centre backs, why we did not go for Evans I will never know. We need Vlaar and one other preferably young centre back plus a left back. Problem is we need to be out the bottom 3 by Jan to not get our pants completely pulled down for those 3 signings. If we are in the bottom 3 players will want a fortune to come to us and other teams will know we are desperate so the price will go up. I think we have to spend 20m on the defense this Jan. It's a lot but its cheaper than getting relegated. BSA has a massive test ahead.
I think this is very harsh on O'Shea. You might not like or rate the guy but we are a totally different team for the better when he is playing. Until we get a whole new defence, he will be first name on the team sheet for our defenders. Evans, 8m? Are you crazy! I don't rate that guy and would have JOS in the team before him, he's utter garbage. Hasn't Pants made the most number of saves for a goalkeeper in the premier league, this season?
Left-back is the biggest problem. I watched the highlights just now (been away on me hols) and PaddytheVanMan is out of position for all the 'soft goals'. How many times have we said that this season? He has no positional sense/responsibility as a defender. Then a new centre-back. I have no gripes at all with JOS or Kaboul, but they need serious back-up and competition for places. We have that at right back now with Yedlin and Jones. Jury out on Matthews til he gets a run in the team and stops being a crock.
You'd have J'FFS'OS in the team over Evans? I'm being totally serious........did I miss something here? If not this statement blows my mind. Everyone has a different opinion but if you ask 100 people that question, especially Sunderland fans who saw how good Evans was as a youngster (without his Manchester experience), I don't know how many people would agree with you.
I agree entirely, and that is the problem, and unless it is solved I fear the worst, we have put up with this situation since he arrived, and it has been the downfall of how many managers, I do not know the answer but I am only expressing my opinion, ie that, JOS and Catts, are not good enough to build a team arround, not in todays league, of course many on here think they are, we will see, I hope I am wrong by the way, but have to say it as I see it.
I'd be happy to put it to a vote. Evans is total gash and couldn't control the defence like JOS does. We need better than both, btw.
Any United fan would have John O'Shea over Jonny Evans mate, the latter was an absolute liability and got exposed once Vidic stopped holding his hand through every 90 minutes. O'Shea was sort of a cult hero here, Fergie trusted him in numerous huge games over the years and he rarely let us down, once his legs went, adios John boy.
A very understated quality of Fergie, mate. He just knew when a players time was up and always got rid when they were just starting on the decline. I'd have JOS over Evans, every day of the week..
I think it's relativity, Juan. You had O'Shea in his prime and Evans approaching his prime but you were seeing them with Vidic and Ferdinand. The idea that JOS in his 30's is half the player Evans is currently is bonkers. To put it into perspective, even here at Sunderland, I don't rank O'Shea as a good player amongst his team mates. Don't get me wrong, nothing against him personally. Give me a 26 year old JOS and I'm happy but Fergie was 110% right about him. I just wish he'd taken him round the back of Old Trafford and put him down rather than sell him to us. jOS in his 30's is diabolically bad (in my opinion). Relatively speaking Brown is far better defender than O'Shea in his time at the club. Brown should have been finished in the 13/14 season but to that point he was much better tha JOS. Apart from the defensive frailties the big problem with O'Shea is that he's the catalyst for the opposition's attacks. If he's lucky enough to get the opportunity to bring the ball out of defence he can't pass more than 20 yards without hitting the opposition. Like I said JOS could be fine still as a delegator and a no nonsense type, but he's trying to play like a dominant ball playing defender who does it all to lead his less experienced team mates (admirable attitude) but his ability has lagged behind his attitude for about the last four years. Why do you think Sunderland were allowed to sign him? Because he was a donkey BEFORE he came. Sunderland get a chance to sign good potential players but once a player has reached his potential we won't be able sign that player till he's a liability. Be it injury (Brown, Rodwell), attitude (Johnson, Sessegnon (no fire in Sess)) or legs (O'Shea), we don't get players in their pomp. A vote would be really interesting. I'd be fascinated either way it went. Having Evans now or O'Shea now? I think that's no contest but I've been wrong before.
Hi TT from a purely Sunderland point of view, we have seen the worst of JOS and probably seen the best of JE, we are arguing/debating who would be the best option today, I agree with the comments made elsewhere, that we need better than either of them.. If we have to sacrifice young Watty I for one will be devastated, but we would still have enough strikers at the club tbh. 20m cash down would be what Levy would ask if the deal was going the other way, and I would agree with him, then if we could put that money and more, into restructuring our creaking defence it might just be the deal to see us through, we live in hope.
To be honest mate, I wouldn't want either now, they're both pretty poor players. John O'Shea always had good application though, and worked for the team. Evans seemed to need a 'carrier' by his side to take the strain, that's fine when the best centre half in the world is stood next to you for 5 years, then Vidic's legs went and Evans was exposed immediately. I can see where you're coming from, in that Evans has more left in the tank but just like Micah Richards, he never fulfilled that potential he showed with you lot. He was never anything more than an accessory here and Van Gaal ejected him despite not buying a replacement, what does that say about him? Edit: I'd just like to add that I think JOS is one of your 'troublemakers' though, so swapping him with Evans could have it's benefits, hypothetically.
We use the word "troublemakers" here, to label players who are only looking out for themselves and who can blame them, the vast amounts of money involved and the short window of opportunity would test anybody. I for one do not believe the great "something is wrong at the club" myth, its an excuse trotted out by failed managers, to cover their own inability to sort out an underperforming team..
