Why we've gone down imo

[Brian Storm]

They played their socks off today. Nobody can say the players don't play for Moyes after that. Also that was about as strong an attacking line up as we can muster and we tried to win the game. So there's blaming Moyes for tactics out the window.

That game demonstrated the real reason we've gone down. We're just not good enough

The reason for that is down to years of the club failing at every single level. We lack the quality, we lack the depth, we lack the heart, we lack the leaders, we lack the management, we lack the identity, we lack the funding. All things developed over time when you run a club right.

Club is a shambles from years of being ran into the ground. Only one season without a relegation fight in 10 years with us cutting it finer and finer every single year. This has been a gradual decline as the playing squad has gotten poorer and poorer as all the depth was sapped out over the years. More dependency on loans, free agents and u23. Predictable to say the least.

Manager after Manager trying to install their own philosophy with a single window and a modest amount of money as led to something that resembles the Frankenstien monster of football squads.

It's easy to scapegoat a manager, he has been very poor granted but to lay all the blame at his door is blinkerd. It's been a very long time since this club could be fixed from the dugout. An owner with no knowledge of the game took chair at our club, the highest hands on position available, and ran this club right into the ground. Not intentionally I fully accept, and there has been some bad luck in there with the poor decision making but it's true all the same.

It would be nice to have a summer without big bad Moyes being the constant boring subject of attention. It's time for everyone to take it on the chin and accept this clubs is ruined from top to bottom and get real to the tough road ahead.

Good job there's more to life than football eh? If that's not the case for you than damn! You've got a depressing road ahead!

 

[alcoauth]

Good assessing mate.

Yes, I think ofcourse many factors make for relegation, but perhaps main problem is consistent bad transfer and wages. After bad transfer for many season it makes all funds spent and owner cannot keep spending. Problem is bad player transfer and spending too much transfer and wages, for many seasons after seasons.

 

[Brian Storm]

Good assessing mate.

Yes, I think ofcourse many factors make for relegation, but perhaps main problem is consistent bad transfer and wages. After bad transfer for many season it makes all funds spent and owner cannot keep spending. Problem is bad player transfer and spending too much transfer and wages, for many seasons after seasons.

Of definitely, but why? I'd say it's the amount of managers who had 1 or 2 windows max to start building their own team only to be sacked. What we have is evolving squad of multiple managers 1st transfer phases. How can we possibly fashion identity and playing style that way? Can't really as it's fusion of other peoples ideas crammed together regardless of whether it works or not.

Ultimately it's Short's lack of patience in his own decisions which has got us in this mess. Sacking Di Canio set the tone. Should never have sacked, him. He knew back then the squad wasn't right. It may have got worse before it had got better under Di Canio but we'd be carved out of stone by now.

 

[Nacho]

I agree that we'll all be a lot better off if we get off Moyes' back because a lot of it has very little to do with him. I think we could have done a lot better with a better manager (look at how Palace are doing now for an example of one) but Moyes isn't that bad.

Our luck was going to run out sooner or later and now it has, time to rebuild.

 

[Brian Storm]

I agree that we'll all be a lot better off if we get off Moyes' back because a lot of it has very little to do with him. I think we could have done a lot better with a better manager (look at how Palace are doing now for an example of one) but Moyes isn't that bad.

Our luck was going to run out sooner or later and now it has, time to rebuild.

And accept that it will a take time.

 

[alcoauth]

Of definitely, but why? I'd say it's the amount of managers who had 1 or 2 windows max to start building their own team only to be sacked. What we have is evolving squad of multiple managers 1st transfer phases. How can we possibly fashion identity and playing style that way? Can't really as it's fusion of other peoples ideas crammed together regardless of whether it works or not.

Ultimately it's Short's lack of patience in his own decisions which has got us in this mess. Sacking Di Canio set the tone. Should never have sacked, him. He knew back then the squad wasn't right. It may have got worse before it had got better under Di Canio but we'd be carved out of stone by now.

It is double edge sword, you can cut the cake and your hand, but not only one!

If you sack manager you can stay in Premiership.. it proved with Poyet, Di Canio, Advocaat, Allardyce (Sunderland have most best examples than any other club) etc Many criticism from BBC and Sky reporter.. "Sunderland sack again", "Sunderland cannot have long term plan" .. sometime story is simple, STAY ALIVE.

Yes it is hard, nobody say it is easy but one important thing.

When you hire David Moyes, you hire before game number 1 of season, OK you dont have big money for spending but it is not a shock, also the squad is not great.. also not a shock.

David Moyes has one job, 17th place.... not 10th... not 8th.... not 12th... his job is 17th, doesn't matter transfer, doesn't matter squad etc. Each game on Saturday.. so from Sunday til Friday has preparation, 38 games... only job 17th.... only have to beat 3 teams. Failed Moyes.

 

[Nacho]

And accept that it will a take time.

Aye I think you've made several very on point posts about how our future will look and I'm fine with it. I was fed up of being ****e in the top league and having financial doom and gloom hanging over us but this is an opportunity to sort ourselves out.

Could go tits up of course but I don't believe it will.

Pocket cups btw haha.

 

[Brian Storm]

It is double edge sword, you can cut the cake and your hand, but not only one!

If you sack manager you can stay in Premiership.. it proved with Poyet, Di Canio, Advocaat, Allardyce (Sunderland have most best examples than any other club) etc Many criticism from BBC and Sky reporter.. "Sunderland sack again", "Sunderland cannot have long term plan" .. sometime story is simple, STAY ALIVE.

Yes it is hard, nobody say it is easy but one important thing.

When you hire David Moyes, you hire before game number 1 of season, OK you dont have big money for spending but it is not a shock, also the squad is not great.. also not a shock.

David Moyes has one job, 17th place.... not 10th... not 8th.... not 12th... his job is 17th, doesn't matter transfer, doesn't matter squad etc. Each game on Saturday.. so from Sunday til Friday has preparation, 38 games... only job 17th.... only have to beat 3 teams. Failed Moyes.

But he's not the only failure. Everyone has failed.

 

[alcoauth]

But he's not the only failure. Everyone has failed.

Cannot sack owner.

Players can be 17th place but is job of manager to organise correct way, ofcourse player not free of blame but ultimate Moyes takes more blame in reality sense.

 

[Brian Storm]

Aye I think you've made several very on point posts about how our future will look and I'm fine with it. I was fed up of being ****e in the top league and having financial doom and gloom hanging over us but this is an opportunity to sort ourselves out.

Could go tits up of course but I don't believe it will.

Pocket cups btw haha.

Yeah, we're moving into Short's specialist area, stripping back companies and streamlining to make a profit. He's failed at building but I think he'll fair much better at striping us to blank canvas making us salable. Could get pretty brutal though.

 

[C19RK73]

They played their socks off today. Nobody can say the players don't play for Moyes after that. Also that was about as strong an attacking line up as we can muster and we tried to win the game. So there's blaming Moyes for tactics out the window.

That game demonstrated the real reason we've gone down. We're just not good enough

The reason for that is down to years of the club failing at every single level. We lack the quality, we lack the depth, we lack the heart, we lack the leaders, we lack the management, we lack the identity, we lack the funding. All things developed over time when you run a club right.

Club is a shambles from years of being ran into the ground. Only one season without a relegation fight in 10 years with us cutting it finer and finer every single year. This has been a gradual decline as the playing squad has gotten poorer and poorer as all the depth was sapped out over the years. More dependency on loans, free agents and u23. Predictable to say the least.

Manager after Manager trying to install their own philosophy with a single window and a modest amount of money as led to something that resembles the Frankenstien monster of football squads.

It's easy to scapegoat a manager, he has been very poor granted but to lay all the blame at his door is blinkerd. It's been a very long time since this club could be fixed from the dugout. An owner with no knowledge of the game took chair at our club, the highest hands on position available, and ran this club right into the ground. Not intentionally I fully accept, and there has been some bad luck in there with the poor decision making but it's true all the same.

It would be nice to have a summer without big bad Moyes being the constant boring subject of attention. It's time for everyone to take it on the chin and accept this clubs is ruined from top to bottom and get real to the tough road ahead.

Good job there's more to life than football eh? If that's not the case for you than damn! You've got a depressing road ahead!

Allerdyce was the answer, we lost him

 

[Brian Storm]

Cannot sack owner.

Players can be 17th place but is job of manager to organise correct way, ofcourse player not free of blame but ultimate Moyes takes more blame in reality sense.

We disagree.

 

[Brian Storm]

Allerdyce was the answer, we lost him

Certainly looked like the best decision to be made in 10 years. Right bit of bad look. He'd still have had a very tough job like initially with no gaurentees but seemed a good fit. Probably our best chance of sorting the club out in this league . Mugged by the FA.

 

[alcoauth]

We disagree.

OK butsomething are important for acknowledge.

Owner: job for directing club and finances, delegate jobs.
Manager: In charge of tactic and on-field, task is to organise players, if good or bad, to best formations to win.
Player: to do manager plans and win.

All have blame, Moyes takes most IMO.

 

[C19RK73]

Certainly looked like the best decision to be made in 10 years. Right bit of bad look. He'd still have had a very tough job like initially with no gaurentees but seemed a good fit. Probably our best chance of sorting the club out in this league . Mugged by the FA.

Sadly yes

 

[Nacho]

Yeah, we're moving into Short's specialist area, stripping back companies and streamlining to make a profit. He's failed at building but I think he'll fair much better at striping us to blank canvas making us salable. Could get pretty brutal though.

We need a good detox don't we, an industrial strength enema. Lots of **** to get rid of that's for sure but a decent bunch of youngsters to work with too.

 

[C19RK73]

OK butsomething are important for acknowledge.

Owner: job for directing club and finances, delegate jobs.
Manager: In charge of tactic and on-field, task is to organise players, if good or bad, to best formations to win.
Player: to do manager plans and win.

All have blame, Moyes takes most IMO.

Moyes is a ****ing idiot, let's not forget who knocked Man Utd out of the cup in the semi finals and cost him his dream job

 

[Brian Storm]

OK butsomething are important for acknowledge.

Owner: job for directing club and finances, delegate jobs.
Manager: In charge of tactic and on-field, task is to organise players, if good or bad, to best formations to win.
Player: to do manager plans and win.

All have blame, Moyes takes most IMO.

Fair dos, not that simple to me. Life rarely is, it's a complex situation.

 

[The Norton Cat]

Of definitely, but why? I'd say it's the amount of managers who had 1 or 2 windows max to start building their own team only to be sacked. What we have is evolving squad of multiple managers 1st transfer phases. How can we possibly fashion identity and playing style that way? Can't really as it's fusion of other peoples ideas crammed together regardless of whether it works or not.

Ultimately it's Short's lack of patience in his own decisions which has got us in this mess. Sacking Di Canio set the tone. Should never have sacked, him. He knew back then the squad wasn't right. It may have got worse before it had got better under Di Canio but we'd be carved out of stone by now.

Each manager was vastly different from his predecessor and Short, or whoever was advising him, appears never to have had a clear idea of how they wanted the team to play or how they wanted the playing sode of things to be run. The clearest example of the fuzzy thinking, imo, is the speed with which he adopted and then abandoned the director of football system. It was never given the the chance to bed in properly. He's just made a series of knee jerk decisions.
As for Moyes, he's made plenty of mistakes and I don't think that the circumstances at the club are sufficient mitigation for his own poor decisions and odd demeanour. His appointment is, however, just another example of Short's lack of knowledge and understanding. He was the wrong man at the wrong time.

 

[Brian Storm]

We need a good detox don't we, an industrial strength enema. Lots of **** to get rid of that's for sure but a decent bunch of youngsters to work with too.

Agreed, get that wage bill under the championship average has to be first priority. We've got enough youth who can join the senior squad to make that achievable. Grounding myself and trying to be realistic, next seasons objective for me is early safety. I want year 3 promotion hopefully with a new owner.