If no one else bothers I'll work it out tonight. Will be a bit skewed though due to the engines not being spread equally out, but it may give us a rough idea. EDIT: actually its pretty easy maths Ferrari = 126pts Mercedes = 113pts Renault = 64pts
Also have to say what are the odds that some of those cars are just straining the engine more than it needs to be just to get on the podium on race day, while the others are looking at the long run and trying not to destroy them. Edit* Just saw the post above BLS saying the same thing pretty much. Thanks for the count up though!
A very rough guess suggests to me that Ferrari would be slightly ahead⦠However, whether or not that would be the case (someone else please do the maths), what should be the most salient point is that, even in this purely statistical sense, there is little to choose between them. Now, even if these statistics were wildly different, the performance of engines is so close and so closely regulated (despite rather clever engine mapping from, in particular: Renault) that the final placing a car achieves is far more likely to be the result of these factors: Aerodynamics Traction Driving ability
Does brake discs come into it Cosi? Or are they'll standard now? Sorry! In the sense of advantages in overtakes not straight line speed. I always heard from the commentators last year that the McLarens are always good under braking compared to others.
Hahaha! I like it! Yeah, why not*?! - After all, what really makes a difference are things that are really different. Any differences between engines are, at most; marginal. *In fact, like engines, braking systems are very similar in performance. [Edit, due to your edit: a car's performance under braking is more a question of car set-up than the brakes themselves]
Off-topic: I have to get back to work now but before I leave, I would like to say that this debate has produced one of the best examples, in a forum, that I can remember, of why statistics can give the wrong impression about reality. Many thanks to Silver's question and BLS' answer of painstaking calculation (I'd guessed he'd do it before I got around to it!). Cheers. ©
In relation to the brakes I would say they make quite a bit of difference, I distinctly remember last season it being mentioned that the McLaren drivers used completely different brakes, Button with the sharper more responsive and Hamilton with the more 'spongey' which came as a bit of a surprise as I would've thought it would've been the other way around, it must always be remembered that it's your braking into the bend that usually determines the exit speed, slow in = fast out, and therefore your lap times. as for the Ferrari being the faster in China, the topend may have been higher but what of the acceleration? Rosberg was hitting his rev limiter very early down the straight at 313kmph (according to the graphic display anyway), I think without knowing the gearing used it's too hard to tell which engine is really better, the only thing I can say without doubt is it isn't the Cosworth.
Would anyone agree with more that F1 is now a lot more about aerodynamics than engines and their power?
Thanks for the good quality of debate here guys, I was actually expecting a bit of flack for asking this question (it contains hamilton and button)
I kind of like the points about overtaking being difficult before and some really good at it like Kobayashi stood out and then throw Pirelli and DRS at it and the increased oppurtunities for other drivers camaflauging their previously stand out skills like Japan 2010
Exactly. This is why it is an important part of set-up; ultimately arrived at through personal preference, which in turn, is based on an exchange of ideas and information with one's engineering team. Some drivers like things very different, but all will attempt to get the best from their own conclusions about what is better.
We've had cars with far more brute power in the past yet round a circuit today's cars are faster. Engines play a major part no doubt but theres far more to gain from aerodynamics.. So yes, I agree
Its a shame we never had the Pirelli's without DRS, I'm not sure F1 would have bothered with DRS once they'd seen the Pirelli's tyre degradation.
Fine go watch his GP2 highlights, overtaking master class. For the record I don't think he is leagues ahead of everyone at overtaking but I believe him to be the best. Also in F1 you tend to need some sort of technological advantage over the car infront to perform an overtaking manoeuvre, be it kers, f duct, better traction or aero efficiency. When cars are evenly matched overtaking is very difficult for anyone, usually it comes down to tyres. Sent from my Android using Tapatalk
Like I mentioned earlier, how many of them were hacks and never got into F1 let alone do well in F1. Piquet was Hamiltons biggest rival in GP2 and Alonso destroyed him 2 years running and he hasn't even been whispered about since after getting kicked out, he sucked and all the others are in bottom teams I dont doubt Lewis' ability I just doubt the people he was around in GP2. It would be like Messi scoring 20 goals in 1 match against a bottom league club and saying he could get close to doing that the EPL, it seems very unlikely that's all. Nobody seems to talk about Sebs Formula 3 drive from 24th to 2nd at Zandvoort in the wet, let alone have videos of it. That was against the likes of Buemi, Di Resta, Kobayashi, Grojsean. Or... Chinese GP 07 from 17th to 4th, finishing 20 seconds ahead of Luizzi. Monaco 08, 19th to 5th in the wet. Brazil 09, 16th to 4th. It's a shame they dont have videos of everybody's from back to front races, it's nobody's fault here *or is it?* it's just Lewis' endevours in lower Formula are slighty blown out of proportion by trying to point out that nobody else did it in their lower formula's. If anybody has got a videos of Seb in Formula 3 I would really like to see them.
Yeah, Rubens one is a bit taited as well since a nut job ran on the track bringing out the SC lol......ah! I remember it well.
