You are of course both correct Oddie and Ron. He did always look a miserable bleeder but could certainly ride and did so to a ripe old age. He will of course sadly be known mostly as the man who got Dancing Brave beat in the Epsom Derby, after employing waiting tactics which made our beloved Jamie Spencer look like an over eager hot head. Pat Eddery I suspect will be eternally grateful for that ride however. As a clue to the others the first is a current flat jockey and the second a current flat trainer.
Totally unfair to Starkey, as history has been too which you are repeating. It doesn't compare with a Spencer ride, Starkey was trying to get a position with the horse from the top of the hill (look at the race), but went backwards, and a fairer comment is that Dancing Brave did not act down the hill. And if you don't act down the hill it will take a load of energy and momentum out of you. Added to that Shahrastani was trained for that race and had the run of the race. He was very good racehorse midsummer and went on to win his Irish Derby by 8 lengths, so that he was favourite for the KG and not Dancing Brave, even though Dancing Brave had won the Eclipse ridden by Starkey. Eddery only got the mount in the KG because Starkey was injured, but having won on him Abdullah sadly chose to stay with Eddery who did ride all his other horses. Dancing Brave never won going left. Harwood was adamant Starkey was not at fault, yet everywhere you hear the same story. He was a really good jockey and probably only 4-5 better than him during his time. He was John Oxley's stable jockey until the end of '69 and rode an Oaks winner for him. He then became Cecil's stable jockey until about mid '74 when he got cheesed off with being replaced by Piggott and left him. He then went basically freelance but was attached to Stoute for whom he rode the Oaks winner Fair Salinia after riding Shirley Heights a few days earlier to win the Derby. By then however he'd already won the Arc on the German horse Star Appeal. He then started his relationship with Guy Harwood which yielded many fine wins including two 2000G winners. He always resented how he was treated as he always felt he could have done nothing else in the race. But armchair critics said it was an exaggerated waiting race that lost him his second Derby. Well if it was why was he so busy on the horse, but getting little response............watch the race. .
Just had a look at the race. I feel ill. That the horse was beaten was a real shame. To a certain degree though, the rider was a victim of circumstances. At about 1:23 into the clip, it seems as though Dancing Brave was inconvenienced for a few strides when those in front of him fell back into his lap. The rider can't be held responsible for this. It may have lost him a length or more. Not the rider's fault. By the time they'd straightened for the run home, Starkey must have been close to panic stations, being so far back. His one observable mistake as I see it, was when he pulled the horse wide, he looked to been a bit too hasty. He dragged his mount across the heels of the horse in front of him, causing Dancing Brave to become momentarily unbalanced. For mine, the biggest query here surrounds the instructions handed to the rider. From what I've today read, there was a question mark about the horse's ability to get the 12f. This of course would later be completely dispelled. Was Starkey asked to ride the horse cold? Maybe someone on the forum has the answer. I did read that both Michael Stoute and Walter Swinburn thought that if they were to beat the favourite, they would have to get Dancing Brave to play on their terms. They were of the opinion that Shahrastani's main asset was his dour, staying ability. If they could go first and make Dancing Brave make a long tortured run home, they might be able to win the race. Clearly that knew that at some stage down the running, they were going to be off and gone, and the race would then be in the lap of the Gods. It was a masterful piece of planning by trainer and rider. Swinburn was brilliant. Starkey's effort was hardly that, but he was also a little unlucky. [video=youtube;JrEyGdVQzhY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrEyGdVQzhY[/video]
Swinburn was a master at Epsom. He has to be rated in the top 3 of Epsom jockeys along with Smirke and Piggott post war. Apparently Starkey was sure Dancing Brave would stay, Harwood was not. Here is an excerpt from his obituary written by Julian Wilson. Above all, his defeat on Dancing Brave in the 1986 Derby, which led, ultimately, to him being replaced as the horse's jockey in subsequent big races, was a blow to his pride which he was never able to exorcise. In reality, he was blameless, because Dancing Brave, like many horses before and since, failed to act on the unique contours of Epsom.
It's possible Julian Wilson was being kind within an obituary, which of course is understandable. Blameless is something it would be hard to call that ride. I do take your point that he did not get luck in running but the black and white of it is that over 12 furlongs there is enough time to find a position and from the time the gates open that's all the jocks job is, he needs be in touch for the long straight so that if the horse is good enough he will win. Due in part to bad luck and part poor riding Dancing Brave was simply too far off the pace, he should never have had that much ground to make up on good quality horses with 3 furlongs to go. As for not acting on the course it may not have been to his liking as it is not for so many, but I have never seen a non acting horse cover 3 furlongs at Epsom in that style in my life. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oUmLn20L6A Here is a great clip it shows to the naked eye that Greville gave him 15 lengths to make up at 2.5 furlongs out and went down by 1/2, it's hard to term that situation blameless. Brough Scott here states here that he felt the horse should have won and quotes Lester Piggott in saying that you must have your position by Tattenham corner. I would say he was not blameless but given a bit more luck in running he ay have got away with it. However it would be a rare race reader then and now who could watch this race fresh and say that ride was blameless. Every jockey in that race would have had races like that in a season, sadly for Greville Starkey his came in a Derby on a legend of a horse so no one will forget it. If Swinburn or any other did the same at Pontefract the following week no one remembers it. He was a fine Jockey however and his record makes this clear.
Starkey was a superb horseman, which is more than I can say for many flat jockeys. The way he "righted" Fighting Charlie in an Ascot Gold Cup, after the horse wanted to bolt off towards the stand rails on the final turn, showed how strong he could be when things didn't go exactly right. I agree that the criticisms directed to Starkey relative to Dancing Brave were, in most part, unfair. The horse just did not act on the big downhill section of this difficult undulating track which is Epsom.
Keith Melrose Published: 27 May 2013 Timeform Premium please log in to view this image Dancing Brave (left) finishes quickly but could never quite overhaul Shahrastani Keith Melrose looks back on the 1986 Epsom Derby and Dancing Brave's narrow defeat... 'No one remembers who finished second except the guy who finished second.' A famous quote attributed to champion racing driver Bobby Unser. His motives are given away in his grand billing: the winner-takes-all attitude is perfectly applicable in the case of a driven competitor, who is interested only in the glory, not the spectacle. Take a sport fan's view and you'll get a different answer. They'll tell you that Federer was just as important to the 2008 Wimbledon final as Nadal; Nicklaus as big a part of the 'duel in the sun' as Watson; Crisp as firmly ingrained in the legend of the 1973 Grand National as Red Rum. These sympathies extend beyond the classic events, too. No one, least of all the victorious Spaniards, will be able to forget Holland's part in the 2010 FIFA World Cup final, the Dutch team's cynical tactics becoming the abiding memory of an essentially mediocre match. It'd also be fair to lay as much blame at the door of Peter Ebdon as Graeme Dott for the sustained bouts of tedium during the 2006 World Snooker Championship final. It is rare, though, for the runner-up to be remembered ahead of the winner. Examples normally involve some sort of van de Velde-esque calamity and, although it would be unfair to compare the denouement of the 1986 Derby with a bizarre meltdown in the Barry Burn, it's hard to imagine that the race would have anything like such a prominent place in history were it not for the misfortune suffered by Dancing Brave. Any Derby staged in the mid-1980s would look fairly alien to a younger racing fan, with its Wednesday slot and unchallenged position as the pinnacle of British- if not world- Flat racing, but in the context of its time the 1986 renewal didn't look anything out of the ordinary beforehand. Remember that we were only five years on from Shergar's stunning 10-length success in the race and 12 months on from Steve Cauthen's masterful front-running ride on Slip Anchor. Hope hadn't been high for the three-year-olds of 1986, a view reflected in the fact that Dancing Brave, winner of a couple of minor events on his two juvenile starts, spent the winter as favourite for the 2000 Guineas. He had always been highly regarded by trainer Guy Harwood, however, and after taking the Craven on his reappearance Dancing Brave justified 15/8 favouritism for the Guineas in good style, showing what would become his trademark turn of foot to see off Green Desert by three lengths. Dancing Brave wasn't always sure to go for the Derby. His connections had Futurity Stakes (now RP Trophy) winner Bakharoff in line for the race through the winter, but when that horse met with defeat in the Lingfield Derby Trial on his reappearance it was decided to send Dancing Brave to Epsom, where he was sent off at 2/1 to complete a double most recently achieved by Triple Crown winner Nijinsky in 1970. In a set-up that looks familiar even now, the Guineas winner's main challenge in the Derby market came from the Dante winner. Shahrastani had taken a route to the Derby that Michael Stoute (he wasn't knighted until 1998) would make famous, going from maidens straight into a Derby trial en route to Epsom. Of Stoute's five Derby winners, only the aforementioned Shergar had deviated from that path, running in the Futurity Stakes as a juvenile. Shahrastani had won the Classic Trial at Sandown as a maiden on just his second start before taking the Dante, which he won in workmanlike fashion from Nomrood. That one had previously won the Chester Vase, though, so Shahrastani had legitimate claims to being the strongest candidate besides Dancing Brave, who still had stamina doubts that were unlikely to be levelled at Stoute's charge. Indeed, stamina was at the heart of the plan Stoute's stable-jockey Walter Swinburn adopted in order to beat the Guineas winner: as Swinburn revealed afterwards, getting first run on Dancing Brave was always felt to offer the strong-staying Shahrastani the best chance. Even early on in the 1986 Derby, circumstances seemed to be favouring Swinburn's approach. The 1986 Derby appeared to be on the steadier side, with Nomrood taking them along. Swinburn had Shahrastani positioned in fifth, very much in touch, while the experienced Greville Starkey had Dancing Brave positioned at the rear. [video=youtube;IDcGqiBcQPw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDcGqiBcQPw[/video] Little changed in the running order before they descended towards Tattenham Corner, but it was on the downhill run that the first signs of things to come materialised. While Swinburn was readying Shahrastani to kick on, Starkey was forced to angle out wide on Dancing Brave, who was going to have to circumnavigate all but a handful of the 17 runners to win. Although not initially picking up for pressure, Shahrastani got to the front over two furlongs out. Dancing Brave, chivvied along by Starkey since Tattenham Corner, was by now picking off rivals down the extreme outside; or, as commentator Graham Goode famously put it: 'Dancing Brave starting to motor- but oh, so much to do!' It was clear inside the last two furlongs that the Derby would be won by either Dancing Brave or Shahrastani. Starkey's mount was clearly finishing the faster, devouring the ground between him and the rest but getting to the leader, who was keeping on as doughtily as Swinburn had anticipated, only much more gradually. Even so, it was only well inside the last 50 yards that it became clear Dancing Brave wasn't going to get there, Shahrastani still half a length clear at the winning post. Swinburn saluted the crowd as he crossed the line, though in a few more strides he'd have more than likely been caught. Dancing Brave had evidently stayed the trip; he'd clearly been the best horse: yet he hadn't won. It had been down to a misjudgement on Starkey's part and it appeared that he knew it: a month later, when he and Dancing Brave teamed up to win the Eclipse with more positive tactics applied, he shied away from post-race interviews. At the time, it was entirely feasible that his Derby reversal would undermine Dancing Brave's achievements. Fortunately for him, though, he was one of the finest thoroughbreds ever to stand on four legs, and Epsom ultimately represented one of only two defeats throughout his career. The other would be in the Breeders' Cup Turf on his final start, but by then he'd won the Guineas, the Eclipse, the King George and, most famously, the Arc: his place in the annals of sporting history was already secured. As it turned out, the 1986 Derby would go further in defining the other major players. Goode had the thick end of 25 years to run as a commentator, but is still most readily associated with his deftly-timed exclamation that day. Shahrastani is arguably harshly done by history: although seen as a lucky Derby winner, his impressive win in the Irish version a week before Dancing Brace won the Eclipse yielded a Timeform rating of 135, making him one of the very best the Aga Khan has ever owned. The harshest post-script is related to Starkey, however. Pat Eddery took over the ride on Dancing Brave for both the King George (when he reversed the form with Shahrastani) and the Arc, robbing Starkey of his best chances at redemption. Greville Starkey ultimately joined the ranks of Doug Sanders and Mike Gatting, remembered for one high-profile defeat as much as for his highly-commendable achievements. When he died of cancer in 2010, most obituaries rightly focused on Starkey's 1,989 winners, or his five classics and numerous other big-race wins across a 33-year career, but Dancing Brave's failure in the Derby, and the fact he was never champion jockey, made for sad footnotes. Bobby Unser presumably wouldn't have felt much sympathy. Most racing fans did.
That's a good piece Ron. It is brought home all the more when you watch the reversal in form in the King George between Sarastani and Dancing Brave, when you watch that you would never say that Sharastani could ever beat him. I cannot have the course being to blame for Epsom, for as already mentioned he looked a little unbalanced coming down the hill but many do on such a unique track, a real non acting horse however could never finish like that on such an undulating home straight as Epsom, I don't think he changed legs or cocked his head once, he just took it all in his stride, at a pace far faster than anything else was travelling at.
I've no idea where this "Didn't act on the course came from". Never heard that one before. Let's face it, 10 more yards and he'd have won. 50 more yards and it would have been more than a length. I don't think there is much point in disputing the fact that it was what one might describe as ill-judged. Crikey, all jockeys make mistakes at some time or other; as do goalies, defenders, strikers etc etc. I have never heard of GS making any others. Great jockey. A selection of some races he did win: 1964, 1978 Epsom Oaks 1965 Danish Derby riding Fonseca 1966, 1978, 1988 Ascot Gold Cup 1975 Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe riding Star Appeal 1975, 1982, 1986 Eclipse Stakes 1977 Sun Chariot Stakes 1978 Epsom Derby riding Shirley Heights 1978 Jockey Club Stakes 1978, 1987 Sagaro Stakes 1978, 1987 Palace House Stakes 1979 Lockinge Stakes riding Young Generation 1979 Musidora Stakes 1979 Diomed Stakes 1980 Prix Jean-Luc Lagardère 1980, 1981 Greenham Stakes 1978 Epsom Derby riding Shirley Heights 1981 Grosser Preis von Baden 1981, 1986 2,000 Guineas Stakes 1981, 1987 Poule d'Essai des Poulains 1982 King George VI and Queen Elizabeth Stakes 1982 Haydock Sprint Cup 1982 Prix Vermeille 1982 Earl of Sefton Stakes 1982, 1987 Gordon Richards Stakes 1982, 1089 Brigadier Gerard Stakes 1983 Sandown Classic Trial 1984, 1986 Craven Stakes 1985 Prix du Moulin de Longchamp 1985 John Porter Stakes 1985, 1987 Sussex Stakes 1986 Celebration Mile 1986 Preis von Europa 1986 Diadem Stakes 1986 Ebor Handicap 1986, 1987 Jockey Club Stakes 1987 Prix de la Forêt 1988 Goodwood Cup 1989 Nassau Stakes 1989 Henry II Stakes 1989 Lingfield Derby Trial Extracted from good old Wiki
I remember Starkey on Cacoethes in his battles with Nashwan, who like Dancing Brave was a true great and Starkey did well to push him so close on Cacoethes. I noticed upon watching this replay something else I remember about Greville Starkey which was his head bobbing in a finish. It was as though he had no neck muscles, he must have finished with a headache in a tight finish. No doubt a top Jockey however and as Bustino has quite rightly stated, among the top half dozen of his generation at his best. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWIwL0rNV8w
I also remember him on Lear Fan - the race against Rainbow Quest (Craven Stakes) was an excellent ride!!
