You've got to bear in mind, most of my free time is either spent with family upp here, or I'm back down in Hull, so a lot of the people I talk to about football up here are accountants or similarly financially minded, especially with a lot of my family working for the banks So there's this: From the recent game against Rangers Dunfermline were owed £86,000 in ticket money. Now even if you work on £20 a ticket and all adults coming that's over 4,000 Rangers fans for that game (with home fans on top). Compared to the attendance when I saw them play 3rd placed Motherwell which was just over 3,000 you can see that the 3 home games they get against them each season (2 Celtic/1 Rangers one year, 1 Celtic/2 Rangers the next) are really important to their finances because the 12,000 extra fans they bring (without allowing for increased home attendances for those games) is about 20% of the ticket money they receive for the season, more if you think that season ticket holders won't be paying full match prices and there's no allowance for kids on the home fans end, you're probably talking about 30% overall comes from Old Firm fans. But there's also the argument that if you took the Old Firm out of the Scottish league (not necessarily putting them anywhere for now) there'd be more interest from people in supporting the other clubs. It's generally accepted that there's no chance of winning the league or either cup (I know Kilmarnock won today), so you're trying to attract new supporters without ever having the serious ambition of winning things. If you take the Old Firm away it becomes a much more even league and games start to mean something, almost any club could win all 3 of the trophies and that would make it interesting for people supporting their local teams. Look at the likes of Wigan in the PL, they had reasonable gates when they went up but relegation battles every season have seen them go back to the rugby where they're competing. In the SPL the gap between 1st and 3rd is bigger than the gap between 4th and 11th, which is 2nd bottom. For the Old Firm fans themselves, although to be fair it's only Celtic fans I've really spoken to about it, just think about Leicester fans preseason. Their bleating about not being able to compete because they don't have PL TV money seems to be their justification for every failing they've got and their being massive means they should just go into the PL. I had a conversation with some of them on a train down before, and they were disgusted when I said it would take them 5 years at least to compete at the top end of the PL. I thought I was being quite positive by saying they could transform their squads in that time just using the increased income, just look at how long it's taken Man City to go from midtable to the top without having to try to run themmselves as a business, and the Old Firm would be starting with good Championship standard squads at best. They also don't seem to grasp that they might not have the same TV money, but their wage bills have been higher than half the PL clubs anyway. When Fortune joined Celtic ahead of us it was around the time that their published wage bill was over £48M a year and yet they were banging on about him turning down the big money to play for them.
Hmm, interesting to hear Celtic fans' reaction to your comments, Ricardo. Celtic's squad now is very much a top-end Championship one, like that of West Ham or Southampton. Rangers is probably more Boro standard. The last time either had a team that would genuinely have been competing in the Premier League was 2003 (especially Celtic). I know Rangers reached the UEFA Cup final in 2008, but that was a side that put 11 men behind the ball in every away game they played, and who only reached the final after two goalless games and a penalty shoot-out. To be honest, they were as poor as any other Old Firm team in the last decade.
Ricardo, Thanks for the insight, top post. I personally think you were being very kind saying it would take 5 years. Erik, I have borrowed a trumpet from my mates uncle. He's a rag and bone man. You know where I'm coming from !!!!
I think what upset them was I said they'd be fighting relegation the first season because they'd be just like a newly promoted side when they moved because it would take time for them to be able to sign the better players, either waiting for the money to buy them or waiting for them to have the confidence to join them. This was towards the end of our first season in the PL (which is why I'm drawing the TV deal element into the rumours coming up) so I think they were thinking I was trying to say that as clubs we were the same size as them, rather than saying that our teams were of the same ability. Erik, what do you mean Rangers put 11 men behind the ball in every away game? They did it in every game whether they were home or away.
if they move to the english leagues - neither of them would probably get into Europe ever !!!. there is no guarantee they would ever get out of the Championship - its a right bitch of a league to be in as we know too well LOL Also i cannot see the English clubs wanting it to happen either -
Why would they have to buy a club close to the border? Surely they could buy anyone and 'MK Dons' them to Glasgow if they so wished. Berwick Rangers have competed in the Scottish leagues and Gretna in the English ones, so I'm pretty sure you can relocate to the other side of the border. I'd find it pretty disgusting if they did, mind.
Yes Celtic could take over Glenorchy Knights. They are currently bottom of the Tasmania South Premier League. I would have preferred them even further away from English football, but I doubt there are any teams on the South Pole.
If they wanted to compete in Europe as we saw with Cardiff a few years ago they'd have to be registered with our FA because the European places are given to the FA to distribute to their members. In order to be registered with our FA they'd have to be based in England so I thought they'd want to be as close to Glasgow as possible. (because you also can't buy a southern club and move them into another club's catchment area)
not sure if it been mentioned already but wouldnt they have to do the same deal as the welsh teams and give up any chance of playing in Europe just to come over to our leagues? not sure how accurate that is but if they did have to i cant see either wishing to give that up as it wouldnt be worth it in my opinion!
Is the 'base' always the ground, or could it simply be a remote head office? For example, could they buy an English Club, keep the old ground as head office and play games in Glasgow, taking only their old (non-used) Glasgow catchment?
Presumably, their base would be where they played their games, you could hardly call a club England based, if it played it's games in Scotland.
I think it has to be offices located at the stadium, otherwise Cardiff would have just bought a flat in Bristol to hold their board meetings in and called it head office. Chester I know built the ground with the pitch in Wales and the attached offices in England, because the Welsh land was cheaper but they wanted to remain part of the English FA.
