he intentionally cheated - thats it. Specualation about FIA in Ferrari's or Bernie's pocket doesn't change anything. I saw what I saw.
Bergy, for me Senna's antics were a tad more subtle than Schumacher's premeditated tactics and of course he did not have the backing of the FIA, and his team, far from it. Senna was no angel and was ruthless in the extreme, although his strong arm tactics, I always thought came about because of his faith in God and his mistaken belief that God would protect him, which in hindsight, sadly was a fatally flawed doctrine.
Sorry to bring the cheating back up, this is all i have to say on the matter. Behind every championship, there is an amount of rule bending taking place. Some people shove others off track, some use illegal cars. For example, the last few titles have been won in part by rule bending. 2008: A car designed using ferrari secrets from the season before 2009: Double diffuser that was questionably legal 2010: The flexi wing, plus a myriad of other (alleged) goodies 2011: the flexi wing, plus rumours of flexible floors, overdone blown diffusers etc. EDIT: 2007: A bizzare malfunction, that never happened before, and hasn't happened since. 2006: Illegal Suspension 2005: Illegal Suspension design 2004: Schumacher, so there must have been cheating somewhere 2003: Dodgy tyre ban, giving Ferrari the advantage 2002: Team Ordergate
2008: A car designed using ferrari secrets from the season before 2009: Double diffuser that was questionably legal 2010: The flexi wing, plus a myriad of other (alleged) goodies 2011: the flexi wing, plus rumours of flexible floors, overdone blown diffusers etc. EDIT: 2007: A bizzare malfunction, that never happened before, and hasn't happened since. 2006: Illegal Suspension 2005: Illegal Suspension design 2004: Schumacher, so there must have been cheating somewhere 2003: Dodgy tyre ban, giving Ferrari the advantage 2002: Team Ordergate OMG - and people insist the driver decides it !!
One last try. Did you ever consider the fact, that across the channel and a little north east, in a country called Germany, people will have a completely different opinion. Some of them even suggesting that Hill is the cheat to ram MSC off the track and into the wall. And that luckily he got what he deserved(DNF). So who's opinion is the truth? Nobodys! They are only just that, OPINIONS and SPECULATIONS. The point I am trying to get through has nothing to do with Schumacher really. If you didn't get it still, It is about acknowledging that we are all different with different views, and should debate mature and civil, whether be it with or against your next. Now by all means, have any opinion you want, but please try refrain from name calling. Excuse me for not sharing your views. Though, I couldn't possibly win an argument against you, so I will refrain from telling you how I think you come across and how wrong I think you are and just wish you a good evening.
Senna was a cheat Schumacher was/is a cheat Prost was a cheat Mansell was a cheat Button is a cheat Vettel is a cheat Hamilton is a useless cheat. Alonso is a cheat All those drivers have won titles, and all have performed illegal moves, benefitted from illegal cars etc. Cheating does pay.
ferrari are cheats mclaren are cheats renault are cheats bennetton were cheats the list goes on......
Bergy, why? this is a reasonable debate no swearing and abusive comments... Chrispa and Hate.. I agree with you Cheating is what makes sport entertaining and controversial and what makes viewers tune in to watch it. All the drivers Hate Worldwide listed have cheated, ALL OF THEM. It does not matter whether it was subtle or in your face, they wanted to bend and shape the rules so they could be at an advantage, you cannot favor one over the other because of the "way" they cheated, it is just out of order. And the posters that are doing this are becoming more and more obvious when a thread like this pops up. You know who you are.. and it is very very sad.
I'm not too sure about all of them wanting to cheat: Like the car's illeagal parts on them, drivers probably wouldnt want to take them off because they would be slower. So they keep them on and they can blame the team and say they dont know or something. Theyve all cheated, again, i'm not too sure if they wanted to or not, but they all have. Cheating, like team orders, has always been apart of f1,and will always be in anything competitive. So yeah...Just another thought here.
What a shame you have this view Manny. I think it is very sad that you find cheating entertaining; sadder still that you think most others share your penchant. I can tell you with hand on my heart that I have never tuned in to watch because of cheating, which disgusts me in the extreme. Furthermore, I have never cheated myself and have found it abhorrent when discovering an occasional competitor has done so. And I would never suggest to a student that it is EVER acceptable! But then - still in reference to cheating - you say, "…it is just out of order". I admit to finding this a little confusing if it is not a complete contradiction. Are you saying "it is just out of order" but that this is also why you tune in"? If this is the case, it is logical to conclude that you have no interest in fair play, either in sport in the first place or as a spectacle for you to watch. I'll say one thing for you though Manny: such candid honesty eliminates doubt as to why you idolise Schumacher…
cheating or pushing boundries? The latter is probably entertaining but the former has a negative effect on the sport. Im a renault fan and found it hard to justify things in 2008/09
No cosi, the reason I idolise Michael Schumacher is the fact that the 42 year old 7-time World Champion has decided to return to a sport after 3 years, wanting to risk his own safety and give his knowledge and expertise to Mercedes Benz as they also rejoined the sport. I idolise Michael Schumacher because when things are not going to plan he does not point the blame at the team or at other drivers, he takes it on his massive chin and moves forward every race, unlike some top team drivers today. I idolise Michael Schumacher because of his dedication to Formula 1, and at old-age (for 2011 Formula 1) he is still fighting for podiums in Canada and bringing the best results home for Mercedes. Yes he has pushed the regulations this year and the last, and he has lost a few front wings, but this is what we call progress, and we are watching this flourish with are very own eyes...
Manny, let me make it clearer: my point is that I disagree with your assertion that there are many people tuning in because they find cheating entertaining. You claim that it is cheating that makes people tune in and that you tune in because you find cheating entertaining, in spite of also claiming that "it is just out of order" - which, as I mentioned before, I found rather confusing because it appears to be at odds with the first assertion. Surely if most people agree with you that "it is just out of order", they would find it distasteful and avoid tuning in? And surely if you believe your own words, you can see this contradiction, since you claim it is "out of order" but you still want to see the thing you disagree with; this thing you previously claimed was entertaining! Making sense of these two conflicting ideas requires one to conclude that you tune in because you like to see something which you believe "is just out of order". Which I personally find odd… One must conclude that in finding unacceptable things entertaining whilst at the same time idolising a driver, you have chosen your favourite driver based upon a perception as to who is most likely to make you happy by doing the things which make you tune in. Only in this way do the things you've said all make sense in the context of how you've presented it. I'm sure you thought about what you said so as to avoid being hypocritical, which is why I said I have no doubt why you chose Schumacher. - Your choice is the most natural; and entirely consistent with finding things which are both "out of order" (to you) and entertaining (to you). Thus, I am reassured that in fact you are not a hypocrite!
