Where did it all go wrong?

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Spurf

Spurf

Thread Mover
Forum Moderator
Jan 27, 2011
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I'm not sorry to say that circumsatnces conspired so that I was unable to see Sunday's game or even get the result until Monday. Easy to say in hindsight but many of us saw this coming although perhaps not the size of the defeat. I had commented on the Prediction League that this was the most pessimistic set of predictions that I remember seeing.

A massive change from our excitement as the transfer window unfolded with Spurs as one of the biggest movers. Dream players were signed as some of us drooled at the prospect of Eriksen pulling on the Spurs shirt or the arrival of 'new striker' Soldado not forgetting the new Ronaldo from Argentina, Lamela.

As expected after such a result the board is full of negative threads and discussions on who should be our next manager. Premature? I think maybe it is. While I have not been a fan of AVB's method and I was certainly unimpressed with his handling of Adebayor and BAE. Tantrums at this level are far too costly and a good Manager would smooth the waters to get the most out of these very expensive players. Despite that I think it's premature to write of the AVB period just yet.

I think it's still in AVB's hands - just! Much depends on how he reacts to this set back. It struck me that he was getting quite full of himself and if this has pulled him back down to earth then it will be no bad thing. For me what he has to do now is get his players onside to work with him and for him. Perhaps open up the discussion in the club and allow the players their input into the situation. If they can do that and turn out against United with a good performance, a performance we can all be proud of, then many of us will forgive him and allow him the chance to carry on with our support.

There is huge talent in this squad and most of it is yet to show itself to full advantage, now is the time! We need a performance from Spurs. It's time for you to produce AVB, it's time to prove the hype has some substance and time to show us the football brain in action.
 
I'm not sure that he's capable of it, to be honest. He seems too dogmatic, too inflexible to deviate from his beliefs. As I have said elsewhere, he seems to have lost the players' confidence in him as a credible manager - let alone motivator! I would like to think that AVB is bright enough, and open minded enough to realise that what he's doing isn't working. I'm not so sure, however, that he is!..
 
"I think it's still in AVB's hands - just! Much depends on how he reacts to this set back."

Very much so. Problem is, the "gelling" claim is all but over.
There are only 3 non-PL games before the FA Cup 3rd round.
Tis PL action more or less all the way between now and then.
 
I think you lot need a few deep breaths.

AVB only has so much pressure on his shoulders because of the £110m he spent, but there's no doubt he was only cashing the Bale cheque before it was signed, the big thing to take from last Summer is that your board entrusted AVB with the chequebook so they're not about to get rid of the man who 3 months ago was your future and even just 4 weeks ago was seen by many as a success.

Plenty of players take time to adapt to English football, your signings may turn out to be stars, they may not, but 12 games in nowhere near enough time to make a judgement on their value....
 
Grizzly said:
I think you lot need a few deep breaths.

AVB only has so much pressure on his shoulders because of the £110m he spent, but there's no doubt he was only cashing the Bale cheque before it was signed, the big thing to take from last Summer is that your board entrusted AVB with the chequebook so they're not about to get rid of the man who 3 months ago was your future and even just 4 weeks ago was seen by many as a success.

Plenty of players take time to adapt to English football, your signings may turn out to be stars, they may not, but 12 games in nowhere near enough time to make a judgement on their value....
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We sacked Ramos and Commoli a couple of months after spending £105m, so we do have previous.
 
"We sacked Ramos and Commoli a couple of months after spending £105m, so we do have previous."

The current PL points tally + the fact that AVB can speak English will spare him the Ramos treatment.
 
West Ham is where it all went wrong for me.

There were signs before that things didn't seem right but after seeing the way we played against West Ham and AVB seemingly not knowing what to do nor having a plan B, that was where I began to actually worry.

The team just doesn't look like scoring, when in possession I'm literally expecting us to waste it or just lose it.

Having lost two home games already against opposition that we need to be winning against and then seeing us embarrassed by a City side that wasn't out of 3rd gear, I just think the players are starting to either question their own ability or question the manager. When that happens, in my opinion a change is needed. I never "like" seeing a manager sacked but I genuinely believe a new manager is needed to help raise spirits and get the players playing how we all know/ believe they can. There would be plenty of managers that'd love to manage the squad we have and I'm sure many of them wouldn't want to be using them in such a rigid, boring system that AVB has deployed.
 
Once again I would stress that, whether we think AVB is doing a good job or not, is irrelevant. I, for one, am starting to get the strong impression that his players have lost faith in him. If that is the case, he will find it very, very hard to get that faith back.
 
NowsufferinginSpain said:
Once again I would stress that, whether we think AVB is doing a good job or not, is irrelevant. I, for one, am starting to get the strong impression that his players have lost faith in him. If that is the case, he will find it very, very hard to get that faith back.
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I agree, i think he's lost the dressing room.

The players look like they are confused with his overload of tactical instructions.

Tbh yesterday was awful management, losing 3-0 and then to bring on a striker at the expense of a centre midfielder was horrific and then he didn't even have the guts to see it through but gave up on it after 15mins.
 
KingHotspur said:
Tbh yesterday was awful management, losing 3-0 and then to bring on a striker at the expense of a centre midfielder was horrific and then he didn't even have the guts to see it through but gave up on it after 15mins.
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Yep, that's called blagging it which is what AVB has done from day one. He fooled us for a good season or so by being "Baled" out but that trump card has gone. Now we can see he's a charlatan!
 
Is AVB actually any good? He inherited a dominant Porto team from Mourinho, changed nothing and strolled to the title there. His time at Chelsea was abysmal and he seems incapable of changing his style, or working to the strengths of his squad. I have just read the quote from Moussa Dembele saying "the manager wants to play with more defensive midfielders".....but don't you have about 7 of the same type of player (more or less)? I'm meaning Lamela, Holtby, Sigurdsson, Eriksen, Townsend, Dembele, Paulinho - I might be a bit out on Paulinho and Townsend, but you seem top heavy here and can only play at most 3 of them at any one time; you could then probably include Lennon and Chadli as well; 9 into 3 doesn't go!!

I was just hoping to gauge Spurs fans' thoughts on the guy; seems to me he's built a career on a fabricated reputation, which is in effect doing little more than watching as a Mourinho-coached team wins a few matches. His high-line is laughable at times and the City result was only a matter of time. Don't get me wrong, on paper you have a good squad and deserved 3 points from Newcastle's visit, but to me it looks like you can either play straight through Spurs or just counter-attack. Without Bale hammering it in from 45 yards every week, those one goal victories have all but disappeared. So is the manager as bad as many are making out?
 
RolyD said:
Is AVB actually any good? He inherited a dominant Porto team from Mourinho, changed nothing and strolled to the title there. His time at Chelsea was abysmal and he seems incapable of changing his style, or working to the strengths of his squad. I have just read the quote from Moussa Dembele saying "the manager wants to play with more defensive midfielders".....but don't you have about 7 of the same type of player (more or less)? I'm meaning Lamela, Holtby, Sigurdsson, Eriksen, Townsend, Dembele, Paulinho - I might be a bit out on Paulinho and Townsend, but you seem top heavy here and can only play at most 3 of them at any one time; you could then probably include Lennon and Chadli as well; 9 into 3 doesn't go!!

I was just hoping to gauge Spurs fans' thoughts on the guy; seems to me he's built a career on a fabricated reputation, which is in effect doing little more than watching as a Mourinho-coached team wins a few matches. His high-line is laughable at times and the City result was only a matter of time. Don't get me wrong, on paper you have a good squad and deserved 3 points from Newcastle's visit, but to me it looks like you can either play straight through Spurs or just counter-attack. Without Bale hammering it in from 45 yards every week, those one goal victories have all but disappeared. So is the manager as bad as many are making out?
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I think many of us Spurs fans (I know I did!) had doubts over AVB after his Chelsea performance/ sacking but eventually gave him the benefit of the doubt and see how he got on.

Last season, despite some impressive results (OT away being superb) many of it was down to Bale, as much as many of us hated to admit it, we knew we became the clichéd "one man team".

So after selling Bale in the summer, we managed to bring in a wealth of talent, predominantly exciting attacking players with growing reputations in football and as some people mentioned at the time - "We sold Elvis but bought the Beatles" - so it was pretty exciting, not many fans could feel so up beat after losing what was a world class player who many felt became the 3rd best in the world last season. Unfortunately, despite the attacking talent we've brought in, AVB has played a system that quite frankly is more defensively minded, and so all of our attacking players have failed to flourish and shine, the only two summer captures that have impressed are Chiriches and Capoue - A CB and DM. Due to the poor system and tactics, the "Elvis/ Beatles" quote has been replaced with "We sold Elvis but bought Hearsay". 9 goals in 12 games, including losses at home to West Ham and Newcastle on top of the recent 6-0 drubbing at City, things just seem to be going from bad to worse.

I've never been a fan of sacking a manager unless entirely necessary and unfortunately I think it's now the case. It looks as though the players are doubting themselves and/ or doubting the manager... When that happens, the only viable solution in my opinion is to find a new manager that can raise spirits and get the team playing to a level we know/ believe they can.
 
Matt Spicer ‏@mattspicer66 7m
Rumour eminating from the City - AVB gets the boot at 4pm.


probably rubbish
 
Daveunited said:
Matt Spicer ‏@mattspicer66 7m
Rumour eminating from the City - AVB gets the boot at 4pm.


probably rubbish
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I don't think he'll get the boot just yet. I think Man Utd could be a defining game for him though, another poor showing along with a poor result could see Levy's hand forced.
 
If the players have gone into some sort of open revolt, or have gone directly to Levy, anything is possible. Otherwise, whilst I have little doubt that his days are numbered, I don't think it will be just yet...
 
RolyD said:
Is AVB actually any good? He inherited a dominant Porto team from Mourinho, changed nothing and strolled to the title there. His time at Chelsea was abysmal and he seems incapable of changing his style, or working to the strengths of his squad. I have just read the quote from Moussa Dembele saying "the manager wants to play with more defensive midfielders".....but don't you have about 7 of the same type of player (more or less)? I'm meaning Lamela, Holtby, Sigurdsson, Eriksen, Townsend, Dembele, Paulinho - I might be a bit out on Paulinho and Townsend, but you seem top heavy here and can only play at most 3 of them at any one time; you could then probably include Lennon and Chadli as well; 9 into 3 doesn't go!!

I was just hoping to gauge Spurs fans' thoughts on the guy; seems to me he's built a career on a fabricated reputation, which is in effect doing little more than watching as a Mourinho-coached team wins a few matches. His high-line is laughable at times and the City result was only a matter of time. Don't get me wrong, on paper you have a good squad and deserved 3 points from Newcastle's visit, but to me it looks like you can either play straight through Spurs or just counter-attack. Without Bale hammering it in from 45 yards every week, those one goal victories have all but disappeared. So is the manager as bad as many are making out?
Click to expand...

Hardly anything in that first paragraph is true. Mourinho left way before AVB arrived, about 5 or 6 years earlier I think, and that Porto side was immediately split up with Mourinho taking some players with him and others going across Europe(Deco to Barca springs to mind). AVB took over a team that had just finished 3rd and I don't care how you cut it with Porto being the biggest club in the league, his performance in that season was very impressive. He broke records there for league wins, points(84 out of a possible 90) and won the Uefa cup and one of their cup competitions to boot too.

As for him with us, I don't think he's far away from the boot and needs to turn things around quickly. It's not ideal bringing in all these new players and a change in style at the same time but we didn't hire him to be an average manager, if he's the quality manager we need he should be able to overcome these kind of problems. What's really causing the unrest at the moment though is that no one can see the light at the end of the tunnel so it's hard to put your faith in him when from an outside view it looks like his tactics are causing us the problems we're seeing. As I've said somewhere before, I'm worried that this job is becoming too big for him, he's not just charged with getting us in the top 4 but he's also got to settle in all these new players and get his style of football working in the PL when it's probably more suited to Spain or Germany.
 
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