When will he learn?

Swarbs

Firstly, Suarez' agent was wrong in presuming that they could challenge the verdict, it could not be overturned, I hasd the actual link from the FA website during the time but I cannot find it now...this link explains the options though...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/dec/21/luis-suarez-liverpool-appeal-options

Secondly, the amount of times that the abuse supposedly happened does matter in my opinion. Suarez got banned for abusing Evra seven times, but according to Evra he did it 10 times, Fergie said it was 5, Suarez said it was once. I am sure you can see the glaring inconsistencies here, hence why I think it is important, how can all the protagonists get it wrong, yet the FA (who remember had no video/audio or witness evidence to look at/go by) get it right? To me that is bizarre and undermines the whole decision. If a man was found guilty of committing a crime seven times without any evidence, except that of his accuser, do you not think that would be suspicious and ultimately an unsafe verdict?

Thirdly, your examples of people condemning Suarez or Liverpool do not contain any factual evidence that Suarez was actually guilty..their condemnation is based on guesswork, again, with no actual evidence...evidence that Evra himself told us there was plent. I specifically phrased the question so any response would have to contain evidence of Suarez' guilt, and as we both know, there isn't any! Unless you want to use Suarez' admission that he said Negro once, but then you will also have to consider that he also said that he did not mean it to be racist in any way whatsoever, as per his culture and the way that the term is used by South Americans.

Fourthly, you are correct that two experts provided evidence, yet the panel decided to accept the non-sensical version of events over the senisble version...thus basically ignoring the experts. Also, you and I both know that this case would never ever have got to court...no evidence, inconsistent statements from all parties, there is no chance whatsoever that the CPS would have touched this case.

Fifthly, what are you on about..."there's very rarely video evidence of racist comments". That is possibly the most ludicrous thing I have read on here for a few months! The fact is that I would expect there to be some evidence if it was so openly said to Evra, I would expect somebody to hear it if it was said ten times, especially considering the proximity of the players in the area when the incident supposedly happened. But no, we have nothing, I find that strange, unless Suarez was mumbling of course, or maybe he was so aware of what he was doing that he made sure his face was obscured from all 18 cameras and his voice was not picked up by any of the 26 microphones that were there that day when he abused Evra 10 times, sorry seven times, er 5?

Your last point is a bit bizarre. Why would Evra think that Suarez used a French word when they were speaking in Spanish? Why would anyone ever do that? Evra started the insults using Spanish, Suarez responded in Spanish, what has French got to do with it? Unless of course you are looking to be insulted, or you are making it up!

Anyway, thanks for trying to clear that up for me, ultimately you failed but never mind.

As I said earlier, I don't know what happened on that day. Unfortunately, 3 men with no video/audio evidence or independent witnesses didn't know either, but they in my opinion were never going to throw the case out for lack of evidence (something which I think they should have done, and something for which there was a precedent set a few years earlier with Emre, i.e. inconsistencies in the witness statements left them with no choice but to find the case unfounded) due to the media circus that was created.

I am a firm believer in innocent until proven guilty and especially in such a high-profile and consequently damaging case I think that this measure should have been forced upon the panel. But since the FA have reduced the burden of proof required to get a verdict ( a staggering 99.5% conviction rate shows how unjust the system is), you now have people being found 'probably' guilty, when in actual fact, they would be innocent if the same level of proof was required as in law. To me the FA need to change the system, to stop things like this happening, because at the end of the day can you honestly say that Suarez racially abused Evra? I cannot.

 

^^^^

Swarbs, this is like déjà vue all over again. These thick scousers used these moronic arguments during the whole incident. Nobody obviously paid any serious attention and they now see a chance to relive that debate. This particularly thick scouser thinks he can overturn our views with his nonsensical arguments. They simply moronic and I cannot be arsed to be discussing and debating them all over again. He is plain wrong.

Can't they see this is a debate they cannot win? That scumbag was found guilty, the club decided not to appeal, he is now quite rightly (IMO) labelled as having committed vile racist actions. No amount of wriggling at interviews can wipe his slate clean.

 

As I said before, by his own admission and a vid of the incident between the pair is evidence enough. If Suarez was using the term in an affectionate "I love blacks, my best mates a black" way, he had a pretty ****ing strange way of showing it.

Trying to explain it away, or justifying it, or even beating the ol' "there's no concrete proof, so we don't know for sure" drum is quite frankly worn out. The **** ****ed up and was deservedly punished.

 

Okay, I am off to watch SoccerAid.

If any one can find a clip or any evidence of Suarez racially abusing Evra 10 times then kindly post it here, that should clear up this thing once and for all! There must be some proof cos Evra said there was...

Also, if anyone thinks that the FA verdict is anything more than a guess (by their own admission they inserted the 'probability' cause) then please post some evidence of that too, there must be some cos you lot seem adamant that Suarez was bang to rights and it is impossible that he may have been misunderstood or misinterpreted...

Anyway, when I get back I will look at all your links and evidence and stuff and if there is something there that categorically shows Suarez racially abused Evra then I will issue an apology for ever doubting it.

Later

 

Why should we do anything you request? If we don't do it he is innocent? F**k off you c**t. We don't care what you f**king think. If you believe him to be innocent then be my guest this is a free country.

You are just an apologist for this vile scumbag. Just f**k off and don't bother coming back.

 

Hmmm, someone is angry!

Don't let me or my words get to you so much mate, chill out and enjoy the debate (or don't). You would think that this was personal to you the way you have responded, I suggest you let it go, it's not as if the United player was 'probably' found guilty with no audio/video or independent evidence is it? Why so angry?

 

You come in here to try to persuade people that the scumbag was innocent. He was found guilty by a disciplinary panel. He has served his ban.the club did not appeal whatever Dalglish the buffoon gave as an excuse.
YOU should give it a rest. If you want o peddle these arguments supporting this scumbag go and do it in your scousers board. All your insinuations that SAF or Evra lied. No one here will believe your moronic arguments. Ok?

 

Oh dear!

I never insinuated that Fergie and Evra lied, I stated that they did!

Did Suarez call Evra a N*****r? The answer is no. Did Fergie state that Suarez called Evra a N*****r? Yes is the answer...therefore Fergie lied! Do you have another word for what Fergie said, untruth maybe, slip of the tongue, mistake? To me it was a lie, he stated as fact something that didn't happen, that my friend is a lie.

Did Evra say he was insulted 10 times by Suarez? The answer is yes. Did the panel agree with Evra, the answer is no. Therefore, according to the panel, Evra lied (remember this is the same panel that you want to believe got their verdict spot on, this was part of their verdict). Do you have another word for what Evra said, untruth maybe, slip of the tongue, exaggeration, mistake? To me it was a lie, he categorically stated he was abused 10 times, the panel said he wasn't, ergo he lied.

Did Evra say that the abuse can be seen on tv, the answer is yes. I will keep this one simple. Was the abuse seen or captured by the cameras? Nope, therefore Evra lied.

So, as I said, I am not insinuating that they lied, I am actually stating that they did!

 

Tell us something new ! These has all been considered by the panel and the scumbag has been found guilty. these moronic points hav been made before.

Look. I said I can't be arsed arguing these points. The FACT is Suarez has been found guilty and the club ACCEPTED both the verdict and the punishment. If he was innocent there would have been an appeal no doubt about it!

I am glad the scumbag has it on his record. All his protestations in interviews will be in vain.

 

One quick question...given the lack of any evidence that categorically proves anything, do you think that it is at all possible that Suarez DID NOT racially abuse Evra and that it was a mixture of cultural differences, language difficulties, politics and people lying that led to the verdict?

I am open to the fact that Suarez did racially abuse Evra, we will probably never know but he may well have intended to be racially abusive, however, the 'burden of proof' required by the FA leaves me questioning his guilt.

So, as you can see, I think that it is possible that Suarez was guilty and I can also see how it is possible that he may be innocent. Can you seriously sit there and honestly state that there is no way that Suarez was innocent, absolutely no way whatsoever?? I very much doubt you can, but hey, let's not pre-judge you, let's wait to hear you say it for yourself!

 

He is absolutely guilty in my mind. There is plenty of evidence. He has been found guilty by a disciplinary panel. He is a vile scumbag. I detest his likes and the people who try to defend him.

 

I don't think there is any doubt that he said something he shouldn't have done i do think that its impossible to say whether he meant it in a racist way tho. Not sure why that matters its no defence to say i didn't understand what i did was wrong, people would never get punished for anything.

 

**** off dickhead. When do I ever say anything racist you prick?

 

This

I cannot be arsed with moronic scousers trying to defend this scumbag. There have been lots of evidence to find him guilty. He did say the word: whether 5 or 10 or once. He admitted it. So guilty!

 

**** this.....listen..if Evra said to Suarez "listen little white boy" once or ten times, in the context of how he said it, would you say he was misunderstood or racist..Please answer truthfully.

 

Well then there is clearly no point discussing this with you, if you can't see that there is a possibility the verdict may be flawed (I mean even the way they announced it, by using the word 'probably' set off alarm bells in my head) then fair enough...

I guess you also thought the Birmingham 6 should have just apologised and gave up trying to clear their name after they were found 'guilty', Amanda Knox and her boyfriend should still be in jail cos they were found guilty, Timothy Evans was rightly hanged for murdering his family according to you, even though Christie did it, the Guildford Four should all be still in jail cos they were found guilty, Colin Stagg should never have been released blah blah blah.

All these cases involved 'guilty' verdicts that required a much more stringent proof of guilt, and all of them were flawed one way or another and each of the accused was actually innocent...yet according to you Suarez is 'absolutely guilty' and you are basing this on the guesswork of three men with no footage of the supposed incident!

Absolutely guilty, have a real big word with yourself mate! I suppose you applauded Joan of Arc being burned to death for being a witch too, she was 'guilty', so obviously she was a witch!

 

So the context in which it was said does not matter? Just as long as he said it, he therefore is guilty of being racially abusive? We all know that South Americans use this word differently to the way we do, but according to you that doesn't matter, you say negro you are being racist!!!

Again, have a f****** word with yourself mate!

 

Where did he say the context doesn't matter? He said the number of times it was said doesn't matter.

I doubt somehow that Suarez would have been saying it in a friendly way.

 

This debate and discussion has been had already. The context is that he said the word in a racist way. Just let the moronic vile scousers try to defend the racist actions of their player. They decided o follow the led of Dalglish the buffoon in not accepting the verdict. Thank goodness their owners are totally against them.

 

He is saying that it does not matter how many times it was said, the fact that it was said at all means he is guilty!

That to me is disregarding the context, I may be wrong but going by the rest of this guy's responses I doubt whether he is interested in the context.

Anyway, I also doubt that Suarez was saying it in a friendly way, but was he being racist? I don't know and the evidence that I have seen to convict him is extremely flimsy (i.e. Evra was more composed when giving his evidence, Evra is a huge fan of Suarez, Evra was the more reliable witness (even though they were both inconsistent with the details). My guess is that it was a misunderstanding, but that did not suit the FA and their political agenda or the media and their need for sensationalist headlines...just a guess though!