What's troubling Poch?

[remembercolinlee]

The one incident that soured me on Trippier also happened against Wolves last season, albeit the game we lost: he passed the ball to Harry Winks in spite of the fact that Winks had two Wolves players bearing down on him, Winks attempted to make a pass and lost possession and Wolves launched a counter - but rather than track back, Trippier was stood there yelling at WInks for giving away the ball

I wouldn't be surprised if I heard that was the moment where Poch gave up on him too

I was at that game and remembered being really snnoyed and surprised at Trippier's arrogance when that happened.

 

[KingHotspur]

Well Martin Lipton must be reading my posts as I have been singling out the Magnificent Eight for weeks now. Although in reality they fall into two groups: 6 we know were definitely meant to be gone (Trippier, Toby, Eriksen, Rose, Aurier, Wanyama), and 2 who were maybes (Jan, Dier) .

But I agree with Spurf - we have no idea why none of them aside from Trippier moved on. It certainly wasn't for lack of trying. We agreed a deal for Wanyama to move to Brugge but the player himself pulled out. We left Rose at home to make it easier for him to move but no-one bid for him until Watford woke up with 3 hours to go before the window closed. Similar actions for Aurier. No-one bid for Eriksen and the only bid we received for Toby was frankly an insult to football and further proof if any more was needed that Baldini was probably taking a dump when God handed out brains.

If anything, the fact that we sold Trippier for significantly less than his market value and bought Sessegnon for significantly more than his market value suggests that Levy was actually stretching much farther than usual in trying to help Poch.

The situation can't be addressed again until January. My concern is that after the relative failure of the summer, now looming on the horizon is the distinct likelihood that we could get rid of 5-6 players in the next two windows and make back barely £50m for the lot of them (Toby, Eriksen & Jan = FREE, Aurier = £15m, Wanyama = £7m, Rose £20m). This, I think, is what is weighing on Poch's mind more than anything. He knows that with regards to having the funds to rebuild, the boat has now sailed. Which is why elsewhere on this forum I have called for us to sell a big name player who has fallen well short of the standard for ages now, in order to generate proper funds. That player is Dele Alli.

Who would buy Alli? And what sort of money?

 

[Citizen Kane.]

Who would buy Alli? And what sort of money?

No idea. But we'd get more for him than we would for the other 6 combined. £70m at least, which is a shame considering the fact that barely a year ago he was worth over £100m.

 

[Spurlock]

Yeah, yeah, yeah! All these they should have done this they should have done that. Why do you need to find a single person to blame it all on? It's not credible, like most things involving humans it's the nature of the beast. You have an agenda against Levy Spurlock because you perceive he won't spend money on players as you would like. The difference is he has to run a cllub that is in reality a multi million pound business. You have pundits on the radio proclaiming that we should have sold Wanyama. We did actually but the player didn't want to go. Same with Rose, you can't force players to move to where you want them because they now have power over their own destiny. Gone are the days when players were poorly paid and 'owned' by the club. Read about Greaves or Gilzean and what response they got when they wanted more than £20 per week. To buy or sell a player is a difficult transaction dependent on his current club, his agent, the buying club and of course the player himself. I wish I could just decide on my own future says Eriksen! To glibly blame one person for the lack of success in any given transfer is just naive. The current malaise at Spurs is because of many many factors from the scouts, to the players, to the manager and the board of directors not forgetting the pressure that can be exerted by fans who have none of these responsibilities they just want silverware. It's a human trait to want simple answers to complicated situations that's what Boris is doing at the moment and sadly people swallow this ****e.

I’ll blame everyone if I need to...including Levy

1 trophy in 20 years under his watch

Longest trophy drought at Spurs since the 60’s under his watch

The hunger for silverware has been sucked out of our club wether you like it or not. That DNA does not exist anymore. It was on its way out anyway but ENIC made damn sure it totally disappeared. They bought us for £21 mill...we are valued at over a Billion


Maybe trophies cabinets cost too much, **** knows but that is laughable stuff.

 

[Spurlock]

Well Martin Lipton must be reading my posts as I have been singling out the Magnificent Eight for weeks now. Although in reality they fall into two groups: 6 we know were definitely meant to be gone (Trippier, Toby, Eriksen, Rose, Aurier, Wanyama), and 2 who were maybes (Jan, Dier) .

But I agree with Spurf - we have no idea why none of them aside from Trippier moved on. It certainly wasn't for lack of trying. We agreed a deal for Wanyama to move to Brugge but the player himself pulled out. We left Rose at home to make it easier for him to move but no-one bid for him until Watford woke up with 3 hours to go before the window closed. Similar actions for Aurier. No-one bid for Eriksen and the only bid we received for Toby was frankly an insult to football and further proof if any more was needed that Baldini was probably taking a dump when God handed out brains.

If anything, the fact that we sold Trippier for significantly less than his market value and bought Sessegnon for significantly more than his market value suggests that Levy was actually stretching much farther than usual in trying to help Poch.

The situation can't be addressed again until January. My concern is that after the relative failure of the summer, now looming on the horizon is the distinct likelihood that we could get rid of 5-6 players in the next two windows and make back barely £50m for the lot of them (Toby, Eriksen & Jan = FREE, Aurier = £15m, Wanyama = £7m, Rose £20m). This, I think, is what is weighing on Poch's mind more than anything. He knows that with regards to having the funds to rebuild, the boat has now sailed. Which is why elsewhere on this forum I have called for us to sell a big name player who has fallen well short of the standard for ages now, in order to generate proper funds. That player is Dele Alli.

None of this changes the fact that Poch doesn’t want to work with them

Wanyama was laughing his bollocks off when he mis kicked the ball...that’s not Poch’s fault.

I find it funny how people claim to know **** all yet know enough to say someone might be wrong

Lipton knows more about the goings on at Spurs than all of us put together

 

[Spurlock]

So Poch wanted 9 gone in 1 window? That would have been a painful rebuild.

But why not walk away in the summer as soon as he realised he wasn’t going to get rid of the players he didn’t want? All this negativity from the manager isn’t doing anyone any good.

It was Martin Lipton who said it on the radio this morning, the guy who wrote ‘White Hart Lane, the glory years’

I reckon he’s got a better clue than most and knows Poch personally.


Why didn’t he leave? Because he didn’t want to...he wants them out of the door instead...good on him. Why has Levy been in a Coma for 2 of the last 3 windows is the real question when we have such a manager taking us to such heights... and we are just seeing the domino affect...people are focusing on the last piece to fall way too much.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Martin Lipton, a Spurs man with plenty inside info reckons the problems are within the squad because Poch has made it clear to Eriksen, Toby, Jan, Rose, Wanyama, Trips, Aurier & Dier that he wants them gone. Of course we only shifted Trippier.

Then this is all on Pochettino, if true.
That's half the first XI and literally the whole starting defence, plus the two main holding players.
Alienating them all is just ****ing stupid. Who sells 9 starters in one transfer window and replaces them successfully?

Wanting rid of Vertonghen alone is ridiculous. He's still one of our best performers and we'd get **** all for him.
He was our best defender last season, including a notable MOTM performance at wing-back against Dortmund.
How much would it cost to replace him with a younger player on a similar level?
Add another eight men to that and we'd be talking new stadium money. Ludicrous and utterly unrealistic.

 

[Spurlock]

Then this is all on Pochettino, if true.
That's half the first XI and literally the whole starting defence, plus the two main holding players.
Alienating them all is just ****ing stupid. Who sells 9 starters in one transfer window and replaces them successfully?

Wanting rid of Vertonghen alone is ridiculous. He's still one of our best performers and we'd get **** all for him.
He was our best defender last season, including a notable MOTM performance at wing-back against Dortmund.
How much would it cost to replace him with a younger player on a similar level?
Add another eight men to that and we'd be talking new stadium money. Ludicrous and utterly unrealistic.

Trying to sell them now because he saw no point in selling them when Levy forgot where his wallet was, I assume.

He had a little cull when he came...he didn’t risk the 2nd one because he probably got to know Levy a bit better

Point is he doesn’t want to work with certain people anymore. You have to accept our Golden era is on its way out. I recall when we lost the title race with Lesta and were hunting Chelsea down the following year and some of us were saying...in football you have to make the ‘now’ count. Others were saying, Naah this bunch will mature and the ‘trophies will come’. Looks like the trophies didn’t come but all the issues of age and a squad in decline, have come.

Regardless of the personal affections with individuals. Like I said in my original post this morning....I also don’t want Jan sold...so therefore on that point I’m in disagreement with Poch over that...but just that.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Trying to sell them now because he saw no point in selling them when Levy forgot where his wallet was, I assume.

He had a little cull when he came...he didn’t risk the 2nd one because he probably got to know Levy a bit better

Point is he doesn’t want to work with certain people anymore. You have to accept our Golden era is on its way out. I recall when we lost the title race with Lesta and were hunting Chelsea down the following year and some of us were saying...in football you have to make the ‘now’ count. Others were saying, Naah this bunch will mature and the ‘trophies will come’. Looks like the trophies didn’t come and age, form, mentality has changed in them few years and Poch wants a rebuild, regardless of the personal affections with individuals. Like I said in my original post this morning....I also don’t want Jan sold...so therefore on that point I’m in disagreement with Poch over that...but just that.

If he doesn't want to work with most of the squad, then he should quit.
Asking for them to be replaced in one window is unrealistic, to say the least. It also doesn't speak well of his man management skills.
This is his squad. He's been in charge of them for a long time now, in Premier League terms. If he's upset them all, then it's on him.

 

[KingHotspur]

Trying to sell them now because he saw no point in selling them when Levy forgot where his wallet was, I assume.

He had a little cull when he came...he didn’t risk the 2nd one because he probably got to know Levy a bit better

Point is he doesn’t want to work with certain people anymore. You have to accept our Golden era is on its way out. I recall when we lost the title race with Lesta and were hunting Chelsea down the following year and some of us were saying...in football you have to make the ‘now’ count. Others were saying, Naah this bunch will mature and the ‘trophies will come’. Looks like the trophies didn’t come and age, form, mentality has changed in them few years and Poch wants a rebuild, regardless of the personal affections with individuals. Like I said in my original post this morning....I also don’t want Jan sold...so therefore on that point I’m in disagreement with Poch over that...but just that.

yeah there were a few transfer windows a few years ago when Spurs needed to be brave, ultimately all the talk was about the stadium and players were bought.

Now they have the stadium built but the squad needs major rebuilding because of neglect.

 

[vimhawk]

Thought it was pretty obvious. He's a free agent and doesn't have an existing contract to buy out.

I was thinking in the amount of money he likes to spend. I don't think he'd be happy with a nil spend transfer window!

 

[Spurlock]

If he doesn't want to work with most of the squad, then he should quit.
Asking for them to be replaced in one window is unrealistic, to say the least. It also doesn't speak well of his man management skills.
This is his squad. He's been in charge of them for a long time now, in Premier League terms. If he's upset them all, then it's on him.

Maybe he just thinks they are **** for what he wants?

Maybe this window it has come to the surface because once again...time brings pressure. Poch is the one who lost more than anyone due to us having 2 barren transfer windows.

Levy can hide behind the stadium and the players are living off our deprived years and their very good campaigns in the last few. Poch is the one who ultimately suffered due to Levy taking his eye off the pitch.

This is the long game showing its hand...this hasn’t happened overnight.

Poch ****ed up by being too honest...he shouldn’t have told them. He should have tried to sell them behind their backs and Levy should support him.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Maybe he just thinks they are **** for what he wants?

Maybe this window it has come to the surface because once again...time brings pressure. Poch is the one who lost more than anyone due to us having 2 barren transfer windows.

Levy can hide behind the stadium and the players are living off our deprived years and their very good campaigns in the last few. Poch is the one who ultimately suffered due to Levy taking his eye off the pitch.

This is the long game showing its hand...this hasn’t happened overnight.

Poch ****ed up by being too honest...he shouldn’t have told them. He should have tried to sell them behind their backs and Levy should support him.

Managers have to deal with inadequate players all the time, unless they're Guardiola. That's part of the job.
Levy took his eye off the ball, as I've repeatedly said in the past, but it's down to Pochettino to play the hand that he's dealt.
If he doesn't like it, then he knows what to do. Having a sulk isn't on anyone else but him.

 

[Spurlock]

Managers have to deal with inadequate players all the time, unless they're Guardiola. That's part of the job.
Levy took his eye off the ball, as I've repeatedly said in the past, but it's down to Pochettino to play the hand that he's dealt.
If he doesn't like it, then he knows what to do. Having a sulk isn't on anyone else but him.

Yeah I don’t think sulking is the way forward at all. He’s sulking because he’s too romantic/emotional...I hope he gets over it.

 

[PowerSpurs]

yeah there were a few transfer windows a few years ago when Spurs needed to be brave, ultimately all the talk was about the stadium and players were bought.

Now they have the stadium built but the squad needs major rebuilding because of neglect.

We didn't have sufficient income to be 'brave' in the transfer windows a few years back. We spent all we were allowed to under ffp. The stadium is the solution to this problem.

 

[BobbyD]

No idea. But we'd get more for him than we would for the other 6 combined. £70m at least, which is a shame considering the fact that barely a year ago he was worth over £100m.

I'm not sure you would. Hes been in and out of football for a year and a bit now with injuries and i would be surprised if he went for 70.

Saying that though there are a lot of stupid clubs around, mine included

 

[BobbyD]

We didn't have sufficient income to be 'brave' in the transfer windows a few years back. We spent all we were allowed to under ffp. The stadium is the solution to this problem.

Thats a lie surely.

Stadium spend doesnt count towards ffp.

Cl runs, top 4 finishes alllied to zero net spend and one of the lowest wage spends and you think you were running close to ffp?

Not sure i believe that. Plus its a 3 year rolling average which provides even bigger leeways.

 

[Citizen Kane.]

I'm not sure you would. Hes been in and out of football for a year and a bit now with injuries and i would be surprised if he went for 70.

Saying that though there are a lot of stupid clubs around, mine included

In today's mental market I reckon we would. You got £60m for Morata FFS. He still has a huge reputation from his first 2-3 years at the club, plus the "I play for Ingerland" VAT, and the fact that he's still relatively young.

The issue is that over the past 18 months he has become a bit of a luxury player, drifting in and out of games and pissing about far too much when in possession. No question he has enormous talent, but the hunger and fight that characterised his early career is all but gone now. Maybe the fame got to him, maybe the injuries got to him, who knows? And so he doesn't really fit Poch's philosophy anymore. Plenty of teams out there who have no problem playing luxury players, we're just not one of them.

Bottom line is we only have a handful of players left who could fetch £60m+ if put up for sale, and they are: Kane, Son and Alli. If push comes to shove and we need to sell in order to rebuild, I think it is pretty obvious which of those three most Spurs fans would choose to sell.

 

[PowerSpurs]

Thats a lie surely.

Stadium spend doesnt count towards ffp.

Cl runs, top 4 finishes alllied to zero net spend and one of the lowest wage spends and you think you were running close to ffp?

Not sure i believe that. Plus its a 3 year rolling average which provides even bigger leeways.

Possibly a small exaggeration. We generally about broke even from 2013 to 2017. No stadium costs were charged to P&L during that period. We could have probably spent about £20m more per season with little risk. But our main issue was that our income was £200m lower than our nearest competitors in the top 6. That was the problem that needed to be addressed and it was. It's still a bit lower but now in the same ball park. There was no hope of regular trophies or staying in the top 4 with that sort of handicap. No other Club, with the exception of Man City, has even come close to closing that gap.

 

[littleDinosaurLuke]

I’ll blame everyone if I need to...including Levy

1 trophy in 20 years under his watch

Longest trophy drought at Spurs since the 60’s under his watch

The hunger for silverware has been sucked out of our club wether you like it or not. That DNA does not exist anymore. It was on its way out anyway but ENIC made damn sure it totally disappeared. They bought us for £21 mill...we are valued at over a Billion


Maybe trophies cabinets cost too much, **** knows but that is laughable stuff.

Don't chase trophies.
Chase the Golden Ticket that is top four.
Getting knocked out of the domestic cups has become less important than dropping a point in a 38 game PL season because of the potential income loss if it costs you top four.