What's Hess going to do about the defensive problems.

Discussion in 'Gillingham' started by LastWaltzGFC, Jan 30, 2012.

  1. LastWaltzGFC

    LastWaltzGFC New Member

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    My guess is that he'll say he's gunna bring in different players, and won't, even though it's been evident recently that Richards is the only defender who has any idea what he is doing defensively. Lee should be in midfield, Lawrence and Frampton are old and slow and I won't even start with Martin. Thoughts?
     
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  2. jayGills74

    jayGills74 Member

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    Its a difficult one to call because i dont think we have a decent fit fullback! Agree Lee should be in midfield and Martin always looks like a red card waiting to happen! As for Lawrence when i have seen him this season he has been solid, slow yes but his experience makes up for it although i will confess to having not seen all the games! The defense is coming in for a lot of flak but i would say upto a month ago they were doing ok, so whats gone wrong? confidence, tactics, who knows? UTG
     
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  3. vinney

    vinney Well-Known Member

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  4. gills4everandaday

    gills4everandaday Active Member

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    the manager will be saying the same thing with 15 games to go.
    all he's doing is trying to get a reaction from his so called leaders in the side...who are not what we need and not who he thought they were when he signed them!

    all he can do is sit on his hands and hope!!!

    wake up hess and sign real players who want to wear the shirt!
     
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  5. brb

    brb Guest

    Ok, defensively I will say what I have seen, went to the Wimbledon game last week and I have seen the 5+ minutes of video highlights on Gills Player as well as listening to live commentary for the Accrington game.

    Two players I want to focus on in their positions for those two games and maybe you tacticians out there can help me.

    Martin - against Wimbledon, I thought Lawrence took more than his fair share of stick after the game. I questioned then what was Martin's part in all this and after seeing yesterday's very, very brief highlights I question it again. What role is Martin being asked to fill?

    He seems to far forward for me, leaving Framps or Lawrence vulnerable, then relying on strength rather than pace, which Martin has got. Probably why I wanted Nouble/Rooney to plug that gap in front of him a while back.

    Also with Martin, I do not know what sort of personality he is but he appears to be head down. Watch the Gills first goal by Jackman as the easiest to see example, whilst all the players are in a huddle, Framps appears to be waving a sullen Martin in. I noticed it against Wimbledon where he appeared frustrated and gave up the chase. Let me make it clear, I am not being nasty to the guy, just an opinion through my own observations of the games - don't mind accepting if I'm wrong, maybe it is just the way he is.

    The second player Charlie Lee, oh dear did he look in trouble. I am hearing what people now are saying about Lee at right back and that needs to change.

    Overall I do not think this is about player ability but it is about them playing in their correct positions or about having the players - especially on the left - in front of them.

    Finally I will finish on Flitney, despite recent games, I still consider him a good goalkeeper, maybe put Gazza in just for the Hereford game, then see how it goes from there. Nothing wrong in competition and it will also boost the morale of Gazza knowing he will get his chance.

    So Gazza in goal, someone else at right back, don't ask me who, then someone in front of Martin and make him stay further back and bloody well smile.
    Then open for debate between Lawrence, Framps, Richards and King. Never liked Richards, however, will accept he has saved us a couple of times.

    I am still tempted to say Framps and Lawrence though, just sort out those wide spaces.

    Now you tacticians can tell me I've got it all wrong <ok>
     
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  6. Gills79

    Gills79 Member

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    I think we are pretty much stuck with our back four options.
    We really need a decent central defensive midfielder to sit in alongside Jack Payne and break up the opposition's play. Montrose is not that player.
     
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  7. alwaysright

    alwaysright @ Very Angry Camel

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    To add to the above - I believe that we've had a problem with the fullbacks for the last couple of seasons (and maybe beyond ) - even when Fuller was fit (too many times he was too far from the left sided winger/striker), and the last reasonable left fullback was Jackman.
    In view of recent performances I would have liked to have seen Callum Davies given some minutes - he has shown ability and maturity beyond his years and would give a little more pace in the middle of defence. (Ideally I / WE would have a fully fit Simon King - even now surely he could be given some time on the pitch ! )
    I still believe that we have enough quality in the midfield and strikers to gain automatic promotion in any season.
    It's a pity that Hess didn't bottle some of his passion from his playing days and inject it into the players before a match. Apart from sorting out the defence as a matter of priority, Hess needs to man manage the players to play with the same heart as he did.
     
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  8. grumpygit

    grumpygit les misérable

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    Is our problem expecting the backs to attack? when you have a defense running up the wing to put in the cross he is a long way from his own goal. Have we got the speed (or skill) to get back if possession is lost, should our defenders leave the attacks to someone else and concentrate on doing their own job first.
     
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  9. brb

    brb Guest

    You summed up my earlier post nicely that is exactly my point.
     
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  10. gills4everandaday

    gills4everandaday Active Member

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    brb, out of all those defenders, would you be like...i've got to put this player in the side...no i didn't think so, and thats my point about our backline...we don't have a defence!
    shame but simon king is over and out and thats the only one you would without a doubt put in a couple of years ago, and your right i don't think anything of richards either.

    gills79, this isn't the premier so why two defensive midfielders???, a total waste and payne & montrose can't play togeather, plus montrose gives so many bad balls away and really don't know what he brings to the team???
     
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  11. LastWaltzGFC

    LastWaltzGFC New Member

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    I don't see what's wrong with Richards. This season he's looked more than capable for our level. I really do think it's full backs that are the issue, not so much centre halfs. Agree with the comments about not using 2 defensive midfielders aswell, I don't think it's neccassary, but Payne's now injured so Montrose will probably keep his place.
     
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  12. grumpygit

    grumpygit les misérable

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    Most fans seem to think Fish is "non league" and will never be any good, strange how the defense has collapsed since he was dropped. <laugh>
     
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  13. Rocky blue army

    Rocky blue army Well-Known Member

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    dont sign any of our defenders grumpy <laugh>
     
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  14. BSG

    BSG Well-Known Member

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    Ok here is my one-man defence of Martin,as you would expect from an ex member of the full back union.

    The problem is that we are expected to provide the defensive cover AND provide width to our painfully narrow midfield. I didn't go to the Wimbledon game so can't comment but too often on saturday he was left two or three on one with little help. In an ideal world he would have been supported by either the wide midfield or the left sided central defender. Seeing as we don't really play with wide midfielders the first option doesn't happen.

    The second option is far more complicated. In the ideal world, the left sided central defender (LCB) will move across to assist the left back, the right sided central defender (RCB) will come across to pick up the space left by the LCB and the right back will tuck in to cover the RCB. Unfortunately for us, Lee isn't defensive minded enough therefore doesn't come in to cover the RCB. Therefore the RCB (Richards) can't move across to cover the LCB (Frampton), leaving Frampton in the impossible position of leaving his man to assist Martin or leave Martin isolated, a no win situation. Saturday Frampton left Martin on his own, making Martin seem at fault. Against Wimbledon I expect that Lawrence chose to assist Martin, leaving space behind him and therefore appearing to be a fault, when in truth the problem is with the system.

    The solution... bring back Fish, he will at least understand the defensive duties involved, this would mean we would lose the width in midfield but you can't have everything.

    ... and breathe
     
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  15. Gills79

    Gills79 Member

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    Quite a few disparaging comments about playing two central defensive midfielders. The idea is that they hold their positions while the left and right midfielders have more licence to keep wide and provide additional attacking options.
     
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  16. bristol407

    bristol407 Well-Known Member

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    Grumpy's point about Fish raises some interesting issues on attitude. Fish is just a little older than the real juniors but he has only been a full time pro since August. So to be in the first team by September was just too early but for my money he showed loads of promise and real pace but inevitably he made some errors and in the last couple of home appearances he was obviously scared of the crowd reaction and lacking confidence. He really deserved an extended run and an acceptance that it would be season end before he was judged but it does not seem to have been well handled. We even had one contributor on here suggesting last week that we bring in some young defenders and sell Fish----the ultimate in irony.
    Lee looks good at right back so long as the opposition does not attack and he seems to be unable to concentrate for any length of time which is easier to hide in midfield than at the back. So realistically the choice at right back is between Fish and Lawrence. It no longer seems allowable to say positive things on here about Lawrence but the fact is that in his three right back appearances this month he was man of the match against Aldershot and close to it against Stoke, I cannot say anything about the Shrewsbury game which I did not attend but the reports were not adverse.
    The choice is a tricky one. Lawrence is the most solid performer but he is 38 this year and it must be short sighted to make him a first choice unless it is an emergency. Lee is a crowd pleaser but a game loser and may be more use elsewhere. Fish is the only one with the mobility to play both a defensive and attacking role but he is green and the crowd will be on his back as soon as he makes an error. Perhaps playing Payne there may make sense after all..
    On the other side I reckon Martin has not been bad until the AFCW game. Richards has had a bad fortnight but had his best 3 months ever up till then. Frampton seems unselectable to me because he is just injury prone. I guess in these circumstances King may warrant a couple of games to see if he really is as slow and fragile as many of us suspect but if this is proved correct he must be released rather than being a 2008 ghost. After that it may be Montrose or the kids playing there.
     
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  17. brb

    brb Guest

    Something I wish to add to this.

    I am currently preparing my pre match write up for the Hereford game, I just thought it interesting to note that Gillingham's change in previous poor form came about with the introduction of Frank Nouble, I think the Hereford 6-1 win was his debut?

    Nouble's last game for the Gills was Bristol Rovers, now putting aside the following game (Crawley win), we have basically gone down hill since his departure.

    Thoughts anyone?
     
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  18. grumpygit

    grumpygit les misérable

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    Whilst I can see where your coming from brb and I'm sure it has some influence on the team, Crawley was the last game for Fish. I'm sure any change will give the pebble in a pond ripple effect but the closer to the pebble the bigger the splash.
     
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  19. brb

    brb Guest

    Yes, agree about Fish, so why is he not playing at right back, he is a liability at times but he is quick?

    Just one minor point you did over look grumpy, Rooney came on in place of Fish at Crawley and we were losing 1-0 at the time. Sorry to bring up another player I favoured but that change helped us win the game 2-1.

    Whether you select Rooney or Nouble now both cannot happen, there but lies your problem imo.
     
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  20. grumpygit

    grumpygit les misérable

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    A total defensive collapse is more likely to be as a result of changes in defenders, as I said any change will affect the team and do except that Rooney was brought on at Crawley after another Lawrence penalty award gave them a 1 goal headstart, I still don't believe that changing a midfielder or forward should bring about a total and prolonged defensive collapse.
     
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