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Foredeckdave said:
Frank, I do listen to what the other boys say about Gerrard and I honestly believe this is his last season, but yesterday was not his fault. Sure they targeted him so the smart thing to do would have been to make their plan work against them. By pushing him 10 yards further forward would have pushed their mids, attackers 10 yards further back thereby giving Hendo more time and space to spray passes.
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Hendo did that several times. I remember commenting on him to a friend of mine, how he was in the 'Gerrard' spot, drilling 50yard passes out to the flanks and, more often than not, successfully so. Whilst Henderson can play this role and may well end up there as his career develops, when he's further back, we have nothing in the centre of the park as Coutinho and Gerrard are not even close enough to having the tools to dominate it like Hendo and Allen/Can do.
 
Two girls said:
Hendo did that several times. I remember commenting on him to a friend of mine, how he was in the 'Gerrard' spot, drilling 50yard passes out to the flanks and, more often than not, successfully so. Whilst Henderson can play this role and may well end up there as his career develops, when he's further back, we have nothing in the centre of the park as Coutinho and Gerrard are not even close enough to having the tools to dominate it like Hendo and Allen/Can do.
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That's not strictly true. Hendo only played behind Gerrard when he was forced into that position rather than it being a tactical ploy. Coutinho was very poor - again - yesterday and you can't claim that he and either Henderson and/or Allen (or even Can) have the tools to dominate the centre when the evidence is so limited.
 
Tobes said:
You played with a high defensive line, at times there was 21 players in the villa half.
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It must be done with purpose and confidence. Pushing higher than the opponent allows you to. Higher and higher. Tightening the screw. Suffocating them.
 
Foredeckdave said:
That's not strictly true. Hendo only played behind Gerrard when he was forced into that position rather than it being a tactical ploy. Coutinho was very poor - again - yesterday and you can't claim that he and either Henderson and/or Allen (or even Can) have the tools to dominate the centre when the evidence is so limited.
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And that's a matter of opinion. In my opinion, Hendo was in that spot far too often for it to have been anything other than tactical. Gerrard venturing further than the halfway line whilst Hendo had the ball between the CBs also never normally happens. He was far deeper than normal and I think it was intended so as to still have that pivot at the base of our midfield whilst Gerrard was man marked and pressed all game.

When did I claim that "he (Coutinho) and either Henderson and/or Allen (or even Can) have the tools to dominate the centre"? I said that Coutinho and Gerrard aren't able to do so when Henderson is the deepest midfielder and I said that Coutinho and Gerrard aren't close to being able to do it like Hendo and Allen/Can could...not sure if you misread or misunderstood what I was saying on that one.
 
Livtor said:
It must be done with purpose and confidence. Pushing higher than the opponent allows you to. Higher and higher. Tightening the screw. Suffocating them.
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Not sure how you can get any higher than all barring the keeper being in their half......

Your theory is wrong anyway as you patently did press high. It also ignores what the opposition did to counter the obvious pressing that you sought to engage in.

They merely dropped off and didn't put any pressure whatsoever on the CB's as they were happy to allow them to have the ball. Instead they man marked your midfield and front line, so that they had limited options and They were happy to defend a deep line as they obviously felt they were superior in the air, and so it proved.

You ended up playing hopeful nothing balls into the box and didn't have the guile to play through them, ergo it was f** all to do with not having a high line and pressing as you did both <doh>
 
When teams sit back and defend well. It is pointless just using your pacy attacking players. Should have had a player with more vision on the bench who could have helped us create opportunities in the final third.

These are the games that Suso should get an opportunity
 
Shteve said:
Agreed. Lovren is error prone and one paced. Moreno is great going forwards, hopeless at defending. Mantequilla is just woeful. Sakho is still crap.

Bizarre that Agger couldn't get into the team and was allowed to leave.
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Manquillo has looked good for someone that's started 4 games in his pro career. Mareno looks good going forward as you say but apart has played 3 games. A debut against City which he struggled in, a game v Spurs where he was very good, and a game v Villa where he wasn't tested because once Villa got the goal, they didn't attack though open play for the remaining 88 minutes.

And Agger admitted himself that he was struggling with the pace and physical nature of the Prem. Earlier injuries started taking their toll, oh and he still didn't know how to mark a defender if he moves more than 2 foot (although Lovren didn't do himself justice yesterday either).
 
Foredeckdave said:
Frank, I do listen to what the other boys say about Gerrard and I honestly believe this is his last season, but yesterday was not his fault. Sure they targeted him so the smart thing to do would have been to make their plan work against them. By pushing him 10 yards further forward would have pushed their mids, attackers 10 yards further back thereby giving Hendo more time and space to spray passes.
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Problem is, Gerrard pushed 10 yards further up, but it meant Hendo had to drop back and was almost sacrificed. Don't get me wrong, I love Gerrard, but he's not beyond criticism and I don't feel he should be a starter in every game, especially when we all knew based on the last 2 games that they would man mark him. His lack of movement makes him therefor become easy to play against and without time and space, he can't play that quick short pass and move football that say Allen, Hendo, Coutinho can play. Just meant when he got the ball it slowed down because all he could do was pass it backwards as he was immediately under pressure.

I thought he should have come off, and then Villa would have had to change their tactic slightly as man marking someone like Hendo who moves around a lot more is a lot harder than man marking Gerrard.
 
I went to the game. Unfortunately. It was a terrible show. Lots of new players so to be expected that we're not going to be slick but I was unimpressed with the slow tempo and the unwillingness of players to take risks (safe side to side passing trying to pass the buck to someone else). Both fullbacks impressed me though and tbh I couldn't really fault them. Sakho,however, is no Agger that's for sure, never once played a forward ball or made a run. And balotelli, I can only assume he will get better. For some reason he kept slipping to the wing and never marked anyone. When on the ball he looked ok bit still looked apathetic when possession lost. Far cry from Suarez who hounded every player and was just desperate to get the ball in the back of the net
 
Lallana is probably as fit as you're going to get him. He only ever managed an hour or so for us, too.
 
InBiscanWeTrust said:
Problem is, Gerrard pushed 10 yards further up, but it meant Hendo had to drop back and was almost sacrificed. Don't get me wrong, I love Gerrard, but he's not beyond criticism and I don't feel he should be a starter in every game, especially when we all knew based on the last 2 games that they would man mark him. His lack of movement makes him therefor become easy to play against and without time and space, he can't play that quick short pass and move football that say Allen, Hendo, Coutinho can play. Just meant when he got the ball it slowed down because all he could do was pass it backwards as he was immediately under pressure.

I thought he should have come off, and then Villa would have had to change their tactic slightly as man marking someone like Hendo who moves around a lot more is a lot harder than man marking Gerrard.
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I'd have considered not playing Gerrard yesterday. As you said, Villa have marked him out of the game twice before so why leave him in there to be ineffective? We should have played Allen, Lalana and Hendo in the middle; lots of energy, movement and desire countering their midfield. Sterling should not have been rested when we're missing Studge either.
 
Gerrez said:
I'd have considered not playing Gerrard yesterday. As you said, Villa have marked him out of the game twice before so why leave him in there to be ineffective? We should have played Allen, Lalana and Hendo in the middle; lots of energy, movement and desire countering their midfield. Sterling should not have been rested when we're missing Studge either.
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Allen injured.
 
Two girls said:
And that's a matter of opinion. In my opinion, Hendo was in that spot far too often for it to have been anything other than tactical. Gerrard venturing further than the halfway line whilst Hendo had the ball between the CBs also never normally happens. He was far deeper than normal and I think it was intended so as to still have that pivot at the base of our midfield whilst Gerrard was man marked and pressed all game.

When did I claim that "he (Coutinho) and either Henderson and/or Allen (or even Can) have the tools to dominate the centre"? I said that Coutinho and Gerrard aren't able to do so when Henderson is the deepest midfielder and I said that Coutinho and Gerrard aren't close to being able to do it like Hendo and Allen/Can could...not sure if you misread or misunderstood what I was saying on that one.
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I was disagreeing with what you said and stating my opinion that what happened with Henderson and Gerrard's positioning did not appear to me to be a strategic move rather it came about due to the nature of play. Further I was saying that if the switch had been strategic then Gerrard would have been free to move their midfield about at will - a task that he did not undertake!

It appears that I did misread your second point - so I apologise. However, I would point out that we presently lack any form of midfield general - no matter who he is alongside.
 
Foredeckdave said:
I was disagreeing with what you said and stating my opinion that what happened with Henderson and Gerrard's positioning did not appear to me to be a strategic move rather it came about due to the nature of play. Further I was saying that if the switch had been strategic then Gerrard would have been free to move their midfield about at will - a task that he did not undertake!

It appears that I did misread your second point - so I apologise. However, I would point out that we presently lack any form of midfield general - no matter who he is alongside.
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I'm not even sure Gerrard can move his bowels at will these days, never mind the opposition team...
Agree to disagree though on the tactics. I thought it looked deliberate though because I'd never seen him play so deep in the last two seasons, but I wasn't at the game so may well have only seen parts of the game which made that impression on me.

Agree on the midfield though, we have no real general in there. Henderson is the best we have, and we're all really happy with him, but we wanted someone else this summer to come in and play next to him. Can was all we ended up with though...and he's out injured from internationals <doh>
Best we can do until the next window (summer probably though) is stick with Henderson and Allen infront of Gerrard.
 
Presumably you'll be looking to buy half the villa team next summer? That seems to be Rodgers MO when beaten at home, or do you think the attempted rape of the Saints squad was a one-off and won't be repeated? Cos it could get a bit expensive.
 
Archers Road said:
Presumably you'll be looking to buy half the villa team next summer? That seems to be Rodgers MO when beaten at home, or do you think the attempted rape of the Saints squad was a one-off and won't be repeated? Cos it could get a bit expensive.
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<laugh>

Lambert was surplus to requirements(age etc), so we've signed 25% more Saints present and or future players than man yoo, have you been bitching on their board Archers?

Every player saints sign that never came through the saints youth system weakens the selling club.<laugh>
 
Pie! said:
Lallana is probably as fit as you're going to get him. He only ever managed an hour or so for us, too.
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The water down there was formerly French urine the radiation from the nuclear sub's on their way to Pompey harbour never helped.

He'll be ok here Pie, the sparklingly fresh water comes from the welsh mountains, the only radiation comes from the rays of the sun.

<whistle>
 
UnitedinRed said:
You certainly can. Everyone else is losing their **** because of it. See the arsenal, chelsea, city (nah not really), liverpool, qpr, sunderland and spurs boards.
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Now I could be wrong but as far as I am aware there's hardly a comment about your ONLY win this season on this board.
 
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