I watched the game against Palace. We won it because of luck and their confidence just plummeted. Other than that we had nothing to offer... The performances under Sanchez are coming to my mind!
What the hell was that?!?!
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Meant to also add, in answer to your question and your final sentence DR. In the Fultime magazine (mine arrived this morning) Jol said, in response to a direct question about Bebatov's lazy 'tag':
"The only thing that is irritating is that people think that Berbatov doesn't care and believe me, he cares...He will never be cheering and shouting because that is not him, he thinks that would be an act if he did."
Interesting insight into his psyche but doesn't exactly address the 'lazy' element.
"It is nothing to do with Berbatov or Bent, it has to do with the application and organisation because if you communicate with each other you come away with results.
If you play like we did today and don’t talk together we looked like a team of strangers. We have worked together now for a couple of months and we have to do better
The incident with Berbatov and Scott Parker, I think that’s a good thing because you have to tell him that is what you should do, that is what you have to do and that is what happened."
Jol's statements as reported on Talksport - does this make sense to anyone?
If you play like we did today and don’t talk together we looked like a team of strangers. We have worked together now for a couple of months and we have to do better
The incident with Berbatov and Scott Parker, I think that’s a good thing because you have to tell him that is what you should do, that is what you have to do and that is what happened."
Jol's statements as reported on Talksport - does this make sense to anyone?
If I was a Fulham fan, I would probably be asking myself whether fitness is all that it should be with my side. There was a period in the second half when Saints passed the ball around for ages and there was relatively little urgency to get it back. Either Fulham had given up or the legs were very tired.
That was one of the best team performances I have ever witnessed at St Marys, so most teams would have found it difficult to get a result but I was surprised how little Fulham pressed to get the ball back.
That was one of the best team performances I have ever witnessed at St Marys, so most teams would have found it difficult to get a result but I was surprised how little Fulham pressed to get the ball back.
As I said in the post in the 'Team v Southampton' thread about his statements on Talksport - they ask serious questions about Jol's ability to manage at the moment.
I don't see him having any vision for the club which surprises me because (although in hindsight its naive to expect, particularly on part of the club) I though he was in for long reign.
Now, I wouldn't blame the club for sacking him, or for him going, it's all been a bit sour for too long and I don't think it's healthy anymore. We've got enough talent to stay up but the absence of any game plan combined with a weak core, in personnel and mentality, is worrying.
I'm not sure what to think anymore, I'm not going to start booing him but at the same time I think I've gone beyond the point of realistic redemption for him
Found this at http://www.footstats.co.uk/index.cfm?task=teams&thisdate=28/10/2013&CFGRIDKEY=Fulham
For season so far;
Shots on target - 27 (26) ((32)) (((44))))
Goals scored - 9 (7) ((6)) (((12)))
% shots scored - 33.33 (26.92) ((18.75)) (((27.27)))
Opp Shots on target - 52 (42) ((44)) (((40)))
Opp Goals scored - 12 (10) ((10)) (((16)))
% Opp shots scored - 23.08 (23.81) ((22.73)) (((40)))
Fulham - 0 points (Hull) +1 ((Stoke)) -2 (((Newcastle))) +1
Chose Hull and Stoke as examples of similarly placed teams who play a less offensively minded (supposedly) system than the 'we're going score one more than you' system Fulham are presented to employ.
Our % of shots on target in the best of the four, but attempts created is only better than Hull.
We can score, from the right positions, but we don't get it there often.
Defensively, our % of shots to goals is toward the lower end in comparison, but if it were to rise to Newcastle's percentage (and factors behind that could be keeper quality or ability of the attacker) then we're in a bad way given how many shots we concede
With;
M Utd (h)
Liverpool (a)
Swansea(h)
West ham (a)
Tottenham (h)
coming up we could see very well see that goal to shots conceded percentage rise
Every year we seem to struggle, dipping into the bottom 3 or 4 for a month. If memory serves, I thought Jol would lose his head last year around Christmas as the team struggled to come to grips with the loss of Dempsey, Murphy and Dembele. The year before, Hughes, had lost control of the team and we were edging toward oblivion.
But this is different. In years past, the team was basically playing OK, but failing to get the results. This year, we are very very poor. I've seen all the teams play this year and, aside from QPR, I'd say we're the worst team in the league. Compared with the other likely relegation fodder, I think Sunderland, Norwich, Cardiff and Stoke are currently playing better than us. Compared with Fulham teams past, this one stinks right up there with Sanchez' team.
Given our fixtures in November and early December, if our play doesn't improve, I can see us sitting in the drop zone by Christmas.
But this is different. In years past, the team was basically playing OK, but failing to get the results. This year, we are very very poor. I've seen all the teams play this year and, aside from QPR, I'd say we're the worst team in the league. Compared with the other likely relegation fodder, I think Sunderland, Norwich, Cardiff and Stoke are currently playing better than us. Compared with Fulham teams past, this one stinks right up there with Sanchez' team.
Given our fixtures in November and early December, if our play doesn't improve, I can see us sitting in the drop zone by Christmas.
Next international break which is in a few weeks. Failing to beat Leceister tonight and awful performance at home against Man U should be the final straw... Enough excuses, can't find many points to defend him any more!
I've defended Jol up to now, but after seeing Saturday at first hand I'm wavering. As DR says, it's not so much the results as the prevailing mood and the paucity of our play. In the past we've been playing well and not getting rewards, but this is very different. Unless performances against Leicester and Man United show signs of something changing, then I think it's time for a change. I'm sad to say that, as I rate Jol but things seem to have broken down, both on the pitch and in his relationship with the fans. It's not impossible that he'll turn this around, but I'm no longer expecting to see it happen.
Captain I am also awaiting your assessment on Ruiz. I am seriously interested in your opinion after watching him play.
After the palace game, a pundit (I think Linekar) said Jol had gone from favourite to get the sack to being in contention of winning Manager of the Month!
I'll vocally sit on the fence as regards to whether Jol stays or goes until after the Man Utd match....but secretly I'm weighing up his replacement. I wonder what the Champions League winning manager Roberto Di Matteo is up to these days?!
I'll vocally sit on the fence as regards to whether Jol stays or goes until after the Man Utd match....but secretly I'm weighing up his replacement. I wonder what the Champions League winning manager Roberto Di Matteo is up to these days?!
I think Jol's going to be the next EPL manager to lose his head, but I can't put my finger on any catastrophic errors he's made along the way. Rather, I think it was a tide of factors - forseeable but largely unstoppable - that's lead to the team's current problems, including the loss of three top players and the continued aging of the others (plus Senderos sucks!). With limited financial resources and the relentless need for points, Jol never had a chance to overhaul the team and prevent what's happening. It's like Jol's been so busy bailing out the boat, he never had a chance to pull it out of the water and fix the rotting hull.
That's not true, he had more than one year to do that. I understand the financial constraints he operates under but has not tried anything new despite the successive slaps... He is failing because of his arrogance that he thinks that is the best available manager for Fulham and is doing us a favour to be here.
He's wasted a fair amount of his limited resources - not saying he has brought in bad players, but they have been in the wrong position (Stek and Bent excepted)
Parker & Diarra - should have released Sidwell or only brought one of the two in, one of them = a waste of wages
Taraabt - another waste of wages, already have cover in that position
Amo - we needed a right centre back, not someone who plays Hangeland's position
Zvetoric - although he covers a few positions he's primarily a right back- given that Hughes has been getting the nod there we should have released Riise or Richardson and brought a new left back in.
Argument also that with limited resources Schwarzer could have got his extension for one more year and Stek not brought in (although maybe a bit harsh). GK was an area we needed to improve, but I'd put LB, CF and CM ahead of it in terms of need.
Given how much we spent on Ruiz I can understand why an owner would be hesitant to back him. By the end ALF wasn't putting any of his own money in and used loans from Vibrac Corp.
Parker & Diarra - should have released Sidwell or only brought one of the two in, one of them = a waste of wages
Taraabt - another waste of wages, already have cover in that position
Amo - we needed a right centre back, not someone who plays Hangeland's position
Zvetoric - although he covers a few positions he's primarily a right back- given that Hughes has been getting the nod there we should have released Riise or Richardson and brought a new left back in.
Argument also that with limited resources Schwarzer could have got his extension for one more year and Stek not brought in (although maybe a bit harsh). GK was an area we needed to improve, but I'd put LB, CF and CM ahead of it in terms of need.
Given how much we spent on Ruiz I can understand why an owner would be hesitant to back him. By the end ALF wasn't putting any of his own money in and used loans from Vibrac Corp.
Silkship I agree with almost everything apart from Sidwell and Amo. Sidwell is solid and he plays for the team. Amo maybe Hangeland's replacement if they noticed that he has some problems.
Diarra, Taraabt, Boateng and Stekelenburg could wait... You forgot Boateng that we chased so much and he is warming up the bench. Riise should have been sold or loaned.
In Jol's defense, I'd argue that nobody can foresee how a given player will work out in the team. Even Sir Alex made personnel errors.
What I'm saying is that Jol (IMO) didn't make any catastrophic, big-picture errors along the lines of long-ball Laurie Sanchez, playing a hopelessly outdated style of football that was unsuitable for our team. I mean an error on the scale of Mark Hughes trying to "fix" the perfectly functional, well-oiled machine that Roy Hodgeson left him.
Jol's been smart about the changes he's brought. He didn't dismantle what was good about Fulham two years ago, he made subtle changes that (by January 2011) were looking very positive. The problem is that the team aged and big teams picked off our best players, and since MAF didn't want to shell out 50M to replace Murphy, Dembele and Dempsey, we were left weakened. Now the likes of Hughes, Hangeland, Duff, Berbatov, Reiter, Riise (to name a few) are well past their prime I don't see much young talent (beyond Ruiz (29), Briggs and Kasami) ready replace the older guys. Is that Jol's fault?
What I'm saying is that Jol (IMO) didn't make any catastrophic, big-picture errors along the lines of long-ball Laurie Sanchez, playing a hopelessly outdated style of football that was unsuitable for our team. I mean an error on the scale of Mark Hughes trying to "fix" the perfectly functional, well-oiled machine that Roy Hodgeson left him.
Jol's been smart about the changes he's brought. He didn't dismantle what was good about Fulham two years ago, he made subtle changes that (by January 2011) were looking very positive. The problem is that the team aged and big teams picked off our best players, and since MAF didn't want to shell out 50M to replace Murphy, Dembele and Dempsey, we were left weakened. Now the likes of Hughes, Hangeland, Duff, Berbatov, Reiter, Riise (to name a few) are well past their prime I don't see much young talent (beyond Ruiz (29), Briggs and Kasami) ready replace the older guys. Is that Jol's fault?
Actually we are getting very close to playing like under Sanchez...
In any case, the argument that Jol is the man to sort out this and noone better to take the team has weakened a lot over the last weeks. There are managers out there who would like to have another go. There is risk on both decisions, sticking with Jol or getting someone else. The risk with sticking to Jol will be visible after tonight and coming Saturday. Jol still has the advantage to sort it out and I wish he does but looks very unlikely...
In any case, the argument that Jol is the man to sort out this and noone better to take the team has weakened a lot over the last weeks. There are managers out there who would like to have another go. There is risk on both decisions, sticking with Jol or getting someone else. The risk with sticking to Jol will be visible after tonight and coming Saturday. Jol still has the advantage to sort it out and I wish he does but looks very unlikely...
Agree Amo can be justified, although I'd have prioritised a long term right centre back.
On Sidwell - I don't mean he shouldn't be in the team, but that if he is we only needed one of Parker and (I always write Diarra by mistake) Boateng.
A litttle bit worried for Jol to be honest - he seems to have let himself go recently. I know he's been described as a 'burly' person but, going by the TV pictures of him on Saturday, he seems to have put on a fair bit of weight. And the after match interviews with the tie all askew, together with the forced smiles ... ??
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On your point about a long reign, I think there have been issues since the Club dithered over taking up the extension of his contract. This is a press report from March 2013:
"Fulham have activated the one-year option on Martin Jol's contract and the manager is set to remain in charge for next season.
There has been confusion in some quarters about Jol's future, principally because he has not signed any paperwork on the option, which was bolted on to the two-year deal that he agreed when he took over at Craven Cottage in June 2011.
But as the option is on Fulham's side, there is nothing for Jol to sign. The club informed him last October that they wanted for him to stay for the extra year and they have continued to plan with him.
Fulham have made no announcement regarding the option on Jol and nor do they intend to, as they feel that there is no need for any fanfare."
I believe Jol was unhappy not to get a new contract at the time. Worse, for us, is that he seems resigned to the fact that he is now very unlikely to get one, however this season pans out.