I keep saying we can't keep the strikers because of the manager, the strikers we have had lateluy want to play in europe, with SB in charge we all know that won't happen, he's quite happy to keep a team mid table at most
With the money Bruce has had??? The thing is both you and me don't know the financial restrictions Bruce is working under. I'm certain given a free role Bruce would have fought tooth and nail to keep Bent in particular. It wasn't him who accepted Villa's bid. People keep saying we have spent a fortune! But have we? Since Bruce arrived we have at the very least broke even in spending, some seem to suggest we have even made a profit. I don't know if Short isn't backing Bruce with money because he doesn't think he's the man for the job or not but if he doesn't rate him. Why not just sack him? It looks to me that Ellis is unwilling to fund any kind of major investment from his own pocket which is up to him. But we can't then slate Bruce when one of our stars leaves or we don't make top ten. His hands are tied it would appear.
A good debate, which also could be spun on its head.. What is the clubs value to Ellis Short. Maybe he is or maybe he isn't an egotistical billionaire that like the idea of owning a prem club. Or maybe he is just trying to do business as usual, i'e putting the minimum in, for maximum returns. It's a business for the man, but one that we should be happy that he chose to invest in for now, cos he won't be around for-ever.
What is the clubs value to Ellis Short? I'd love to know the answer to that one. At this moment in time he seems happy to be the owner of a very average Premiership club.
Correct me if i am wrong here but this is Bruces 3rd season isnt it so how could he be responsible for all 3 scenarios? He finished 13th and 10th and if you are being very honest, that 10th spot was destined to be 14th actually had not the baffoons up at NE1 blown a 3 goal lead and conceded in the 94th minute of the last kick of the season, so to lay claim Bruce has improved us is statistically correct but is also just papering over the cracks? We have been totally ****e now for nearly 11 months and if you really think we will be finishing anywhere near 10th this season, you just kidding yourself mate. If we finish above 16th this season and below 14th, I'll consider it very lucky. I see nothing in Steve Bruce to suggest that we can be any better and regardless of the arguments about how much money he has had, other managers with even less financial clout are doing far, far better. Moyes, Pardew (after only 11 months in the job btw), Pullis (Stoke are in Europe but came up after us) and both Swansea and Norwich have performed far better than us and they are new comers with zero investment and wages. how much money would you be willing to gamble on your man bettering or even matching 10th place this season Cyprus? I'll double your stake and bet we will not better it. If your not improving, then you must be getting worse. We are. Bruce has had 5 transfer windows and has not improved us as a unit at all. In fact, we are considerably weaker than we were even back in January this year, given our strikeforce of Welbeck, Bent and Gyan have all gone now. Whilst its the easy option to just say Bent and Gyan left for money and its not Bruces fault, the reality of course is very different. Bruce DID know Bent wanted away in the August of 2010 but did nowt about it. Then when he did oiss off in January 2011 he said it came as a shock. 6 months to find a replacement then was wasted. Then, in the summer of 2011, after another 6 months, he doest recruit a replacement and then Gyan ****ed off, this agaon after telleing Bruce back in May he was unsettled. Does Bruce just bury his head when players say they want to ****, off or does he just **** his pants and hope everything turns out okay? Piss poor planning and a piss poor manager imo. Stories we are now after Rodellaga are laughable given that we needed him 4 months ago anf did **** all abut it then. Where all of a sudden has the money come from now to allow us to buy him, or was it always there but Bruce just couldnt be arsed to look for a striker back in June? Nothing at all, not one thing impresses me about Bruce apart form the miriad of feeble and hapless excuses he manages to come up with. If he spent as much effort and time building a decent squad and team as he does making excuses we'd have pissed UEFA Cup qualification last seasona nd maybe then the status of SAFC would have altered for the better. As it stands, I cant wait to see the back of him and his ruining the club any further.
Whilst Bruce is in charge I'd say we are a worse than average club but then again that is upto Short to resolve if he feels it requires a resolution, which I tend to hope he does for a number of reasons. The budget has got tighter... however my take on the situation is that I think a man of Shorts calibre wouldn't be looking to offload players little more than 12 months into their contracts and still expect to remain a stable club... I think that there is another factor which is the reason why these players are leaving so soon and I also believe that is why Sir Niall was handed a new position and Short took over the reigns. I visualise Ellis Short as a man who applies a very thorough examination upon any issue before he makes his decision. If my assessment of what is occuring is accurate then Bruce will now be under greater scrutiny in terms of being the right man for the job from a long-term perspective.
He finished 13th and 10th and if you are being very honest, that 10th spot was destined to be 14th actually had not the baffoons up at NE1 blown a 3 goal lead and conceded in the 94th minute of the last kick of the season, so to lay claim Bruce has improved us is statistically correct but is also just papering over the cracks? But they did concede 3 goals, we finished 10th and therefore in the top half so what's the problem? It's all if's and but's but the facts are we were 10th because we had more points over 38 games than the bottom half.
If 10th position had provided a 20 point gap above relegation then that statistic might have held a bit more water in terms of the 'improving every year' statistic. To put it into perspective, we finished 13th the season before and 14 points above relegation... So... we finished 6 points closer to relegation last season than the season before. I think that reflects a truer picture of the 'improvement' under bruce. 2009-2010 13th and 14 points clear of relegation. 2010-2011 10th and 8 points clear of relegation.
Ok Cest. When Bruce took over we had just finished 16th. The end of his second full season in charge we finished 10th. Seems like improvement to me mate. As for it being lucky??? We gained more points over a full season than all but nine teams despite being very "unlucky" with injuries. How can that be luck, no matter what happened to any other team on the very last day? Bruce has had five windows yet if the figures are to be believed hasn't spent a penny overall. Why is that? I'm sure he'd like to. Just as he'd love to have kept Welbeck Bent and Gyan. Welbeck was never ours of course. Bent and Gyan both gave Bruce assurances they were more than happy to stay yet left to chase the dollar in moves that I'm sure Bruce didn't and couldn't sanction. It's not his remit.
Its great how you can work stats anyway you want isnt it. 2009-10 the 3rd from bottom team Burnley had 30 points. (we had 44 points) 2010-2011 the 3rd from bottom team Birmhingham had 39 points (We had 47 points)
Well what it shows is that the continuous progress that is sited by the BiBs had brought us 6 points closer to relegation. The 10th place stat is about the only positive aspect of the BiB reasoning for improvement, yet we were 6 points closer to relegation...
but we were 3 points better off than the season before and 3 places better off, whichever way you look at it, its an inprovement, ok not a massive one, but its still an improvement, if 3 teams finish this season on 15 points, and we get 42 but finish 15th in your recogning we would have had a better season because we finished 27 points above relegation. Like i said, stats can be made to suit anyones argument.
What it shows is this 2008-2009. 15 clubs in England were Superior to Sunderland 2009-2010. 12 clubs were superior... 2010-2011. 09 clubs... 2011-2012. time will tell.
Cest, you have provoked a goo debate, which has produced some excellent posts. My view is that your analysis is a tad simplistic. We need to get real. SAFC need to live within their means. As has been said several times, Mr Short is a business man and will most likely cut and run in a couple of years. In the meantime the club are aiming at the African (Ghana) and Asian Markets (Korea) to increase marketing, to increase turnover, to give the cash to increase investment which you so desperatley crave. Yes we have good crowds, but pricing is 'realistic' . They culd never realistically charge what say Chelsea and Spurs charge their supporters. Stats don't lie. We have improved the league position for the last two years. We have not been relegated for some time, after being a yo yo club! I disagree that we have gone backwards this year. Maintained status quo probably. Investment is needed to do just that! As I said, good debate.........
Every year is different though, the history books will show a 10th place finish. I'm not saying we were great to get there but we did get there which is the main thing, Man Utd hardly had their greatest ever season as they got loads of draws but did their fans complain after they won the league? What happens if we come 4th bottom on 40 points but the team in 18th only got 28 points, is that success?
Clutching at straws comes to mind here a bit. Without that last gasp equalizer in the 94th minute of the last game (one we had no contrl over) we would have finished 14th? Would you, based on your thinking, then have equally said Bruce was crap then for finishing in a worse place in the league? No, you'd have made another excuse for him no doubt. Bruce is just not vut out to make us a better team, whether he had 100m to spend or nowt. He is a Wigan size club manager and nothing more. We WILL finish lower than 10th this season and thats an absolute fact I'd be willing to bet any money you have on. This is the REAL facts. Year on year, regardless of league position, we are creeping (galloping this season) towards a relegation place. If the difference between say 10th and 3rd bottom is only a few points, the margin for error is less. We have 4 games just to try and put a little bit of distance between us and relegation. Its going to be a real struggle this year. Its his job to ensure we have adequate replacements though Cyprus. He knew Bent wanted away; he knew Gyan wanted away; he may not have had control of their departure but he is totally 100% responsible for finding replacements for them and an 18 year old he knew wasnt ready and 21 year old South Korean he also knew wasnt ready was piss poor planning and piss poor management imo. They would have been excellent aquisitions had we still had Bent and Gyan but to have made them the main strikeforce replacements when they were never going to be played, they were piss poor decisions mate. Totally piss poor.
I think all we do is defend our positions using whatever stats are available to make our points. Thats fine. The simple fact is that if Bruces supporters are comfortable with what they see from their man then so be it. I wish you luck in that pursuit. If you truly believe he has improved us then good on you all. All I see is a piss poor standard of football; extremely piss poor results for 11 months in a row; a piss poor tactical manager incapable of changing games during them; poor squad development over 5 transfer windows (we are still nowhere near having a settled squad even now) and a man so full of lame excuses for those piss poor results and performances, it makes me cringe to the point I cant listen to him anymore. We are perilously close to the relgation trap door yet AGAIN and face a long, hard and mind numbing Winter ahead, watching this god damned awful football. Failure to get at least 9 points in the next 4 games will leave us facing an uphill struggle in January and February and do you really see anyone decent coming to a relegation threatened team in January? More likely the rest of half decent ones will want to bugger off than anyone decent coming in. Bruce is well beyond what he is capable of handling imo and it shows up everytime he speaks and acts.
I think the only person clutching at straws on this argument is yourself. You are reminding me of that now infamous Rafa Benitez conference. Come on, lets sack Bruce because he only got us into 10th place due to other team's failings... Jeez, Barcelona are pathetic, I mean they only won the Champions League because they beat everyone. We got the points and goals that got us into the top half, what else can they do. I'm not a huge fan of Bruce but you can't argue with the fact that we finished 10th, look at the league standings from last year and tell me where we finished?
Another Bruce supporter argues semantics. Do you sit on his writing panel for lame after match excuses as well? Okay, we have been totally ****e in competitive and pre season games since 1st of February. 31 competitive games and 5 or 6 pre season ones. Is that better? It doesnt make our relegation threatened season any better thats for sure. Just make sure that you brush off all the crap in your hair, after you remove it from the sand you have youre head buried in come May 13th 2012 mate.
