Thought I would venture back and see your thoughts on yesterday's game but this particular post warranted a response I think. In what way are you planning for the long term better than us? Yesterday's starting lineups had average ages of approximately 27 for West Ham and 26 for Southampton. If Lambert had started and Vaz Te had started the average ages would have been about the same. Like you, we have a superb academy and 2 or 3 outstanding prospects on the fringes of the first team. The financial rewards of being in the premier league next season have meant that Gold and Sullivan felt it was worth a little splashing of the cash in the summer. We hardly bought players over the hill. Most of our signings are players in their twenties approaching their prime, most of whom should be able to serve us for the next 5 or 6 seasons minimum. We still expect to win the Olympic stadium and with that there is a general feeling that this will attract major investment into the club which makes our future look even brighter. So yes we may have had a bit of a spend up to secure our immediate premiership survival, but trust me our long term prospects look very good also.
I will reply simply; You bought fairly quick-fixes in a lot of instances, primarily being your marquee signing who is only on loan. Your players, manager and play-style are all perfectly suited for instant competitive ability in the Premier League and the avoiding of relegation but not a lot more at this point in time, Jaaskelainen, Collins, Benayoun and Diarra are all prime examples of players who have been brought in not due to talent but only experience, 3 years ago good signings, not so much anymore. Jarvis is another who's importance and price has been inflated due to relative experience in the Premier League, Maiga and Diame and to a lesser extent Vaz Te, are the only impressive signings based more from talent than experience. We have stuck with an inexperienced manager with other options available, inexperienced but talented players and a play-style not suited to the end of the table we would inevitably found ourselves in and have, all because we have ambitions of growing as a team and as a club into a outfit that does belong at the other end of the table. I would like to emphasise that I do not count our approach as better, more righteous or more impressive than yours, your approach is very sensible, safe and it has worked perfectly. Ours is risky, the pay-off could be big, but equally we could fall flat on our face, fall to pieces and get relegated at which point our team is dismantled and goes it's seperate ways. And whilst right now I don't think your team has any potential higher than a comfortable 12th-15th team season in season out, it is of course possible for you to slightly change your approach, bring in players, invest in youth and talent and charge up the table, but at this current point in time, that's not the way you look like heading, I don't mean any disrespect by that, it's just my honest unbiased opinion.
We signed players for areas of the team where we were lacking premiership class. Jaaskelainen, collins, benayoun and Diarra are all cheap, low risk signings which compliment our young side perfectly and are exactly the kind of guys that you would have done well to sign to guide your young squad. Just because we signed these players, doesn't mean we aren't planning for the long term. The signings of Jarvis, Maiga, Carrol, who are all quite young, mixed in with our already youthful squad show that we have plenty to look forward to over the next decade. You can fill a team up with exciting, raw talent but You still need some players who have "been there and done it". Your approach is admirable and you might get away with it. But with the financial rewards of premier league football next season, I am glad we have take the route we have.
And yes I am aware Carrol is only on loan but there is a real belief that the signing may become permanent in January.
I don't doubt you are glad, I would be chuffed too if I were a West Ham fan, like I said, I think our approach has some upsides, but also a lot of downside, right now yours definitely has more up and less down, no question. I think Maiga is a very good signing, got some issues but very talented, much like Diame, and then there's Jarvis I feel you paid a tad too much for, he has his great moments and a good amount of talent, but not quite enough to justify the price tag. You've also got already not Noble who is a cracking player, and then Reid has looked to be improving rapidly as a footballer. I'll hold judgement on Carroll until you actually sign him or not, because at the moment he's only on loan and that is an issue as he is pretty much the centre of your team, but I just don't buy into him as a top-class footballer, he did nothing against us other than earn a couple of doubiously deserved free-kicks, and we have had the worst defence in the league this season yet he accomplished little only to be given a standing ovation and plaudits, he lives too much off of his price tag as an indicator of his quality and doesn't show enough. But Jussi, Collins, Benayoun and Diarra are signings that I just don't rate. Whenever I see teams buy players like that it just shows more desperation than ambition to me, kind of just says 'These are players that have been proven to be only of an average at best quality and not good enough elsewhere, but we need Premier League players or experience, so let's sign them up. That being said, overall I don't fault or begrudge you for your approach and it doesn't take a footballing genius to show that it's working so far.
Without wishing to sound provocative, the "desperate" signings you mention are all experienced, proven players at the top level that provide stability and calm when things could so easily go wrong (like yesterday when you pulled a goal back) and all would walk into your match day squad if not your first 11.
Investment in the training ground and academy, bringing through 50% of our academy Looks pretty long-term to me Now go back to the Hammers board
Our point is that your fourth choice is probably better than our first choice, we failed to get the needed cover in, blowing the loot on an expensive casualty!
I agree it does. But I didn't ask that did I? I said how are you planning for the long term better than West Ham? We had 3 academy players feature on Saturday. Would have been 4 if Collison wasn't injured. We are also investing in training facilities however our new training ground at Rush Green was put on hold when the Icelandic banks fell apart. This will soon be revisited however once the Olympic stadium future is sorted. Our academy has just been awarded elite category one status. So it is nonsense to suggest you are going to surge above us in a few years. You look well equipped for the future. But so do we. So No I wont go back to the hammers board thanks.
I agree with the first line here. I hoped we could make that work, but I do think we need a more experienced head in there. Your second line suprises me totally. I really didn't expect a West Ham fan to be chasing the dime. Haven't you learnt enough from those others (nearly yourselves if you hadn't gone up) who have gone belly up looking at the £ signs? For me, I want us to stay up because it's the top flight in our game and I want our club to be playing at the top. The money is a by-product.
Did we not learn anything from not investing in 2004 ? Coming up from the championship your squad won't become premiership quality automatically .
You don't seem to ever frequent the West Ham Board. Nothing since you almost failed to get promoted in fact!
I see your point. Let me just explain what I meant. If west ham make a tidy profit, it makes no difference to my life directly whatsoever. Usually, I do not care what the bank balance is as long as we are performing well on the pitch. However. West Ham have £90m worth of debt after the Icelandic banking crisis. Gold and Sullivan came in and rescued us and the debt is now manageable but they are keen to stress that we are not out of the woods yet. We need a few years in the prem to drive the debt down. The hope is that a move to the Olympic stadium will attract investment which will hopefully enable us to compete nearer the top of the table. It would not be viable for a team outside the prem to be playing in a 60k seater stadium. I would still support West Ham if we went down to the conference. But for the foreseeable future it is important that we make as much money as possible to secure the existence of our club.
I am a member of a separate west ham forum away from not606. I signed up here last season just before we played you to chat about the game. There was some good banter and also some good sensible debate which I enjoyed which is why I like to come back. That ok with you squire?
Let me guess KUMB! Only joking we all enjoy a bit of good banter. Think we are all feeling sesnsitive after the weekend!
You got it! Yeah I think football would be boring without a bit of fun between rival fans when they play each other. Last season there seemed to be a lot of dislike between the 2 clubs which is a shame because Southampton were always one of the few clubs I genuinely liked. I still do in fact. But I suppose last season we were promotion rivals and this season we are competing with you for prem survival so there is a bit of ill feeling at the moment. Also your manager is a difficult chap to like as I would imagine, is ours!
You got that right! Up until last season West Ham were almost a second team for me. I'm afraid I took a real dislike to Fat Sam and Nolan in particular. Seemed to give us no credit for finishing second but went out of their way to praise Reading! I have nothing against the fans though.
