Off Topic What Are You Hoping For From Boris Today?

Back on topic the pubs with beer gardens will be busy in a few weeks. Can’t wait.

 

You apparently will have to prove you have had a jab.

 

Well that went pretty much how I expected it to, and probably how it should have went. Pleased to see a staggered/gateway approach to getting things back to normal.

Thought the 3 musketeers handled the questions rather well, some of them just ****ing ridiculous, they must have a right giggle about that after the cameras are turned off!

Can’t wait to get back out on the course again, see friends, eat out and maybe get back on the beer!

Not sure if the Earl has a beer garden so you might be safe for a while yet chippy!!

 

That Simon Jack was a disgrace.

 

Was he the **** who asked BoJo if a 4th lockdown would lead to him resigning?

 

That's right. What a horrid thing to say. All this goood news and up steps a journo to piss us all off.

 

Thankfully Boris treat that question with the contempt it deserved, ****ing ****er.

Really starting to warm to that Whitty fella like, not the best public speaker but a very clever bloke!

 

That zig zag faced cow off the BBC pisses me off.

 

My daughter is a primary school teacher her day starts at 6.30am and she leaves school at 6pm when the caretakers kick her out
she then come to ours for her Tea because she hasn't got the time to cook a proper meal for herself. After that she goes to her old bedroom where on a normal evening bar from a cup of Tea she works till 9.30pm setting out the next days school work
My wife and I have often asked her what we can do to help her, but there is nothing we can do as she has to personally mark every school kids books each night, that 28 maths books and 28 English books
During the 6 weeks holidays she has to prepare for the next intake which means a lot of background stuff on the kids

There is a lot of work other than teaching that has to be done before term starts
She has to attend fresher courses as schools are evolving each year
She is on a set contract for wages but doesn't include overtime even when she has to go to school camps and watch over the kids 24 / 7

I can tell you there has been many tears this past year, with her saying she cannot cope with the stress

it's not easy, things are never what it seems

 

It's a really hard job and I don't think people really understand it. They follow a false narrative. It's the Tories who set it.

 

Lots to talk about here.

May want to skip this bit

I'll start with pay as I'll try to balance it a touch. I don't agree that teachers get paid a "pittance" as we're generally on more than national average salary and that is only for 39 weeks work (rather than 44-46 most jobs work - statutory minimum holiday leave is 28 days, average is 32 so that's 5.6 to 6.4 weeks off a year but in professions it's usually more 32-35 days FYI).

As regards pay overall it's worth baring in mind we get paid about the same as nurses - almost identical. We both start on £24-25k and then the senior payscale for both tops at £37k after 8-10 years of work. There's differences in the level of work of course (I'd argue nursing is harder though have never done it and also nurses need to work more weeks for it but then again teachers generally have higher levels of qualifications and according to every study done on the matter work 5-10 hours a week more on average) but my main point is that they are remunerated almost identically and you'd get shot down for suggesting nurses were over-paid.

My pay is what it is, I gave up being a lawyer for this and i don't regret that in the slightest. If I was driven by money I probably would, my old colleagues all earn 10-20k per year more than me and some significantly more than that! I still wouldn't trade.

Pensions are a black-hole of an argument I will happily go into it if people want but basically due to changes made 10-12 years ago we now pay significantly more for a chunk less than we used to get. It's still very good compared to a private pension but don't work off old ideas of what teachers pensions are, we have a good pension we pay a lot of money for. I'll leave it at that.

Now the important stuff

I'm happy the pupils are coming back in. I've still been going into school every day and teaching all my lessons I'd usually teach just over a computer but instead of having my form class I oversee the key worker children at break and lunchtime. They're full days - honestly - but dull. I much prefer having the pupils in and will be glad when they're back. I do begrudge the idea that I somehow have to make up for lost time by working through my holidays or working longer hours when I've literally not missed a single day of work this academic year, I've been in school every day teaching a full timetable (different schools have run this in different ways and, full disclosure, my school does not compel me to be in work every day as I am allowed to teach from home. Given that I have 3 young children and my wife is a doctor - so I'd have them by myself all day - I didn't see it as feasible to have them with me. There's just no flexibility with teaching, if I'm covering Pythagoras with my class of 30 14 year olds and need to go and sort out my 4 year old having had an accident I've lost half the class by the time I come back and will have parents complaining to the head - no exaggeration).

I don't know the solution to "catch up". Children aren't machines, even if teachers agreed to work for free I still don't see how it helps. Do you make the extra hours compulsory?

No: The pupils who need it the least will turn up and the ones who need it the most wont. Happens every year when we try revision classes, you get all the high achievers in whilst you waste hours trying to convince the ones who actually need it just to show up. If you can convince them to come they then act like they're doing you a favour by being there and expect to do nothing but learn from osmosis.

Yes. Similar to above but the ones who don't want to be there - the ones who did little during lockdown who need it the most - will resent you for it. Remember back in school, can you imagine what you'd say/think regarding teachers if you were made to work extra hours/days/weeks. We'll have to bear the brunt of it and for what really? If pupils aren't on board with it then they wont learn anyway. I could honestly see this doing more harm than good as a section of pupils will just blame and hate their teachers and it's hard to win them back around once lines have been drawn like that.

I think the "plough more hours into the children" argument sounds fine on paper and would work in an industry setting, indeed in most contexts, but screams of people who don't work with children on a daily basis. The academic damage is smaller than the potential for driving more pupils to viewing school as a punishment.

 

Some really balanced views on here. Respect.

 

Oh

I totally appreciate that mate and I know it’s not just the 32 hours a week and 39 weeks a year.

Primary school teachers are not as well
Paid as secondary school teachers which may or may not be right.

That said teachers are doing well for pensions. They are also guaranteed pay rises every two years till they hit their caps.

Having said that i work 50 hour weeks 48 weeks of the year and my pension is crap. I get 20 days holiday. I get paid less than a U1 teacher and I’m a fully qualified accountant. I study outside of my working hours and have done all my life to keep on top.

Every profession has its ups and downs. But I firmly believe that the teaching profession is fairly paid.

 

Absolutely very well balanced points mate. Very excellent.

Not wanting to go to much into pay as that’s a different topic really. The pension point is a mute one for me. Outside of the public sector pensions are shocking for the best part. But hey that’s life.

As for the rest. I don’t know what the answer is.

 

Would delaying the leaving age work? 6th form
Is optional. But maybe make the first year of it compulsory?

 

There's a reason why, for the last decade, teacher retention rates are one of the lowest of any profession. 1/3 quit within 5 years, I'm almost a decade in and around 58% have quit by now. Oh well, we are also a bunch of whingers in fairness - I'm only half joking there btw!

 

My Daughter is in her 6th year and the past 2 have been a struggle for her
in Primary Teaching, I have found out that my daughter only does about 30 % of her time actually teaching
the rest is made up marking books (which is not teaching) child welfare / social services stuff, police stuff. etc stuff that she never thought about when she started University
As far as her pension is concerned, she puts her money in like everyone else

As I have said before, my eyes have been opened as far as teaching has been concerned

 

Oh gosh that's an absolutely fair point. It's also not a coincidence though, there's a balance that people make when they decide on public vs private sector and whilst i do have a better pension than if I had remained a lawyer my friends mostly drive company cars, have computers paid for by their work, have mobiles they've been given on paid for contracts, get bonuses, paid meals and even season tickets (though I admit lawyers aren't a fair example of private sector working, but I think most professions in private sector offer some BiK). The value of these adds up fast.

Sorry I said I wouldn't go into this, please thread ban me... I usually try to deal predominantly in facts and fully accept there is a mixture in the following text, please interpret as you wish: Summary: Pensions overall, whatever your job, have been screwed in the past 10-15 years. Teachers have had that too compared to what we did have but compared to private sector we've got it great.



A very quick note on pensions. Going back to, i think the 80's, teachers paid a higher percentage for their pensions than most public sector employees. They were due to be cut but instead it was agreed teachers would pay a higher percentage towards it but in turn would opt out of a portion of National Insurance to offset some of the pain but were barred from claiming state pension. Back in 2011-13 teachers contributions were put up a bit (nothing too painful) but the amount received at the end was shrunk by some margin. To offset that the government said they would supplement it by allowing teachers to be able to claim state pension so that the combined amount is now only marginally smaller than it was... however national insurance contributions were then pushed up to the full rate so in effect pensions took a small hit (5-10% so not nothing) and a teacher on average salary was then having to pay over £100 a month extra to have it. At a time when teachers salary was frozen, for 8 years running.

As regards the employers contribution, it is indeed high but was actually increased at the same time as employee contributions were alongside the benefits of the system being cut, it was believed this was to make allowance for the increase in National Insurance contributions but the overall salaries increase pay out (in tax rather to employees) of 4.8% is widely believed to have lead to pay reductions in teachers as it puts more pressure on schools to balance books whilst working in a debt and deficit.

It was a time when public sector was being squeezed all over but the teaching Unions messed up badly and it's why they're so vocal at times like this. They need to feel relevant but only succeed, in my eyes, at making the average person have a lesser view of teachers.

 

For what it’s worth mate I totally understand. I’m in the LGPS which isn’t as good as the TPS but still significantly better (by a country mile) than what I had prior to joining the public sector.

I get frustrated that I’m paid less (gross) than I was buy as you said it’s a choice thing. I get paid less in my pocket now. But I pay less in tax and I get twice as much in my pension. I’m better off in the long run.

But my gross salary is equal to an M6/U1. I’m a fully qualified accountant and tax advisor and I’m paid very low in comparison. It’s a choice thing of course.

But when I work 50 hour weeks for 48 weeks of the year and my 6 year old daughter is getting taught by a teacher who earns more than me gross with 11 weeks extra holidays it’s hard to accept that teachers are not paid fair.

Maybe it’s me that’s the mug.

 

That's pretty tough. You're probably on a similar salary to myself (I'm on M6 and want to stick solely to classroom teacher so have no interest in stepping further up the scale). There are things I feel very privileged to have, in my old job i used to feel awkward asking for my holidays so used to only take 10-15 days a year (that was pre-children in fairness) and i don't miss that at all.

I work with a lot of people who seem to think teaching is horribly paid and I end up taking a similar stand point to yourself. The pay isn't the shocker people make out, when tied to the fact it's not for a full years pay I think it's alright. Comparing it to other professions is tricky though as it depends which professions you pick. Many average professions - like police officers - get paid more but you're not comparing like with like. I accepted the job knowing the pay, I cannot turn around now and complain about it too much.

You get 28 days holiday minimum by the way, or else your company is breaking the law - including bank holidays there but in fairness people always include them when talking about teachers and never seem to when talking about anyone else. 28 days is statutory minimum.