West Ham

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Bandit

Bandit

Active Member
Mar 30, 2011
2,747
7
38
Oxford
Am I right in saying that the next game against West Ham is make or break for Jol?

The bookies have the Dutchman overwhelming favorite to either be sacked or leave his post as FFC manager, ahead of other managers such as Benitez at Chelsea and Lambert at Aston Villa.

General consensus on this board is that Jol still has our support, but only just. He has made mistakes this season and up until now has yet to shoulder much of the blame. My question to you all is, if we fail to beat West Ham, which is a distinct possibility considering their dominant performance against QPR and how they are our bogey side, will Jol still have your support?

Hughes lost to West Ham at home around Xmas time and the majority of fans called for his head. Will Jol fare any better? The Fulham players persuaded MAF to keep hold of Hughes and reverted back to Hodgson's tactics, which saw us climb the table sharpish. Could you see the players doing the same for Jol, who, if various publications are to be believed has isolated various members of the squad?

Is MAF holding back funds to see whether or not Jol can grab us some vital points during January? Is a replacement already being lined up? Adkins's sacking at Southampton further reinforces the fact that no manager is safe in this league. MAF bit the bullet getting rid of Sanchez and bringing in Hodgson, which led to an upturn in fortunes, could he be set for another roll of the dice?

Answers on a postcard.
 
I feel that if we get 2 good signings in the transfer window,and register some reasonable performances,
he will be ok. but should we not have picked up any more points after the Norwich game then he must go.
Remember no premiership no new riverside stand.
 
Do I think WHU is this last game - No. He still has my support and is clearly working on limited reasources. it doesn't look good, reported bust-ups played down (this aint the first time either), We've won 2 of our last 15 premiership games. Jol doesn't have a settled 1st team. Constantly changing pre-games,we're not a settled side. Cannot keep a clean sheet either. Look at the players out of contract in the summer...this worries me. We are an aging team all over the place. Our Club and Team Captain who's not signed up - how does this look - i'm not saying he's off but whats the hold up - cannot be good for morale.
Desperately short of a MF that can't put a tackle in and have little creativity which has been the case for 5-6 years now (Dembele excluded).
Now reports being banded around we are after Torosidis a 500k Greek RB who's out of contract in the summer...seriously is this as good as it gets?
 
I've been pretty steadfast in my support for Jol throughout his time, and I'm still behind him, but for the first time I'm beginning to see that the naysayers (who I still disagree with, by the way) aren't being ridiculous and premature. There is a case for questioning Jol's future and whether he's the right man. Personally I don't think it's a change we should make, or one we should hope gets made for us if he chooses not to stay on beyond May, but now it's turning into a valid question.

But is West Ham make or break for him? No.

Cottagecravens. Sorry, I posted about Torosidis on the transfer rumours thread before seeing that you had mentioned him here. In answer to your question, I'm sure that Torosidis isn't going to be as good as it gets in the window. He sounds like a decent enough signing, but not one that anyone regards as the answer to all our problems (although he can play defensive midfield too, so...)
 
Entirely agree with CC and Captain. I would point out that changing a manager now would /could be even more destabilising. I am in total agreement with CC that we are an unsettled team at the moment and it badly shows. Perhaps more concerning though is that we are not a settled club at the moment. There seems to be disputes all over the place. I have read that the powers that be feel Jol has bought too many attacking midfielders and there is dispute there. Jol yet to sign a contract extension, and as was rightly pointed out, the amount of players out of contract in the summer. All in all it is a right mess and I would be looking to members of the board to be explaining some of these situations. That said, Jol is walking a tight rope. I still believe he is the man for the job but our results have been worryingly poor. As they say football is a funny old game, 2 losses and a draw from the next 3 league games and he will be in trouble, 2 wins from the next 3 league games and he is nailed on until the end of the season at least.
 
A simple question to all. Who is unsettling the side? Is it Jol or the board? We all were happy to see BZ going last season as he was unsettling the dressing room! If it is Jol then maybe we need to waive good bye. If it is the board then not much we can do but given past experience the board has been behind the managers till they decided to give it up or they were insufficient for the role.

My feeling is Jol and his style of man-management. Also some of his decisions are questionable. The lack of strong self-criticism by admitting that tactics might be wrong and not the players fault. We can't score coz we have nobody up front to score. We keep passing the ball aimlessly!!

And probably Berba. Simple as that. Berba and his genius or arrogance or whatever is not helping. He is the biggest star by far and is being protected by Jol and press. They are singing his praises when in fact in some games he is absolutely crap. Ok he can do some fancy tricks, hold the ball. What is the result? Playing in a midfield role has failed. Simple. Change it. Move on to the next ideas.


Will he be here after West Ham? Probably yes.
Does Jol have my support? Hanging by a thread.
Is there an alternative? Yes. Adkins or even Ray. Ray will not say no to helping out. Or even Billy Mc.(Not the badger).
Shall we drop the zonal marking and fancy systems 4-3-1-1 or 4-2-3-1 or whatever and go back to a 4-4-2? Yes till we get some points under our belts. Ruiz and Berba up front. Let the midfield to Sidwell and Kara. Stop dropping back taking the ball and nobody to play it up front.


My question to all the above is: can we avoid relegation if we get dragged further into a relegation battle? My feeling is no and that is because so many players will be out of contract without interest on the club's fortunes. The club needs to re-approach the situation of the over 30s, talk to them and get things sorted.
 
West Ham are a bloody good powerful side, you could easily lose to them.
I'm of the opinion Jol is a bloody good manager, but you'd know him better Bandy baby.
Am I wrong? ;)
 
Jol isn’t the overwhelming favourite for the sack, a lot of booking such as Paddy Power have Pardew as the favourite. For some reason he is up there but he isn’t the overwhelming favourite.

When we lost 1-3 to West Ham on boxing day a few years ago West Ham were bottom of the table and the defeat left us. West Ham are doing well this season and a defeat to them won’t put us in a relegation position so I don’t think it’s a fair comparison

I think we’d be stupid to get rid of Jol. In the summer we lost our two best players and they were our best players by a long way. He hasn’t really had sufficient time (or funds to replace them). It looks as though the Money from the sale of the Ds is going to go towards the Riverside Stand and Jol can’t do anything about that.

If we were in the position QPR or Reading are in then fair enough think about replacing the manager but to replace Jol in our current position would be nothing but stupidness.
 
I agree we look disjointed and unsettled, but as Froggy says, is sacking our manager really going to solve that? If we do sack Jol, who do we get in? I don't have as much faith in Adkins as everyone seems to, and he's not done nearly as much at the top level as Jol. Who is there after that? Not many candidates. Of course, if we lose the next 3 or 4 games then I'd have to rethink my opinions, but I'm not getting sucked into this knee-jerkery.

COYW
 
Bidley said:
I agree we look disjointed and unsettled, but as Froggy says, is sacking our manager really going to solve that? If we do sack Jol, who do we get in? I don't have as much faith in Adkins as everyone seems to, and he's not done nearly as much at the top level as Jol. Who is there after that? Not many candidates. Of course, if we lose the next 3 or 4 games then I'd have to rethink my opinions, but I'm not getting sucked into this knee-jerkery.

COYW
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I think the overall feeling within the forum is that Jol is still the best option, this is a transitional period, we lost D & D, Diarra is not fit, is too cold, etc.

Just unsettled as we see no real improvement on getting the goals we need, just ball possession. Obviously we can't expect us to go and win against Man City but at least to create a couple of chances.

In any case lets drop Man United out of FA Cup first and then we deal with West Ham...

Come on Fulham!
 
All good responses

TMHAF - The one betting site I use had Jol at 6/4, which was way out in front of any other manager. I think Lambert/Pardew were 3/1.

For the record, Jol still has my support and I will go into the game against West Ham with optimism, more so than I had against us facing City, but if we draw/lose that game, with our away record, we are running out of home games to get points from, whereas the teams below us seem to be finding momentum. I think it will be a close call who goes down, and that Jol's signings this month really could be make or break.
 
Captain Morgan said:
Me neither.
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I'd like to think I'm more qualified than most to comment on Adkins considering I have watched Southampton play since he joined the club. While it's true that he already inherited a talented squad under Pardew, he nurtured the young talents at the club who are now very good players and on the verge of their national teams (Lallana, Schneiderlin) He buys young players and brings them through which has been seen this season with the signings of Yoshida, Mayuka and Luke-Prowse and Shaw from the academy. He plays attacking football with a set of limited players and it pays off. The likes of Lambert and Puncheon aren't world beaters but Adkins was able to get the best out of them to perform at a higher level, much like Hodgson did.

Can anyone elaborate on their dislike for him and give a valid reason? Not liking his post and pre match interviews doesn't count.
 
Bandit said:
Can anyone elaborate on their dislike for him and give a valid reason? Not liking his post and pre match interviews doesn't count.
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Well, I think it does count, although I'll agree that it shouldn't be the only basis for not wanting him. He's done well at Southampton and was very harshly done by with the timing of his sacking. He's got the 5-10 years of managerial experience that I think is the minimum, albeit not much of it at the top level. I'm always the first to say that the length of experience is more important than the level so I can't hold that against him.

There was a lot of criticism of him at the start of the season for not making the right type of signings in the last window and for not preparing the team well for the Premier League. I think those criticisms are harder to make now that Southampton have started to get some good results and move further up the table (if he'd been sacked a month ago, it would still have been harsh but would have been more defensible).

My objection to Adkins is something I find hard to quantify. Although my point about the interviews in the other thread was a bit tongue-in-cheek, I think it does relate to the way he approaches the game. He sounds like someone who has recently been on a course and is full of feel-good jargon. Bottom line, he doesn't feel Fulhamish to me. Hodgson did very quickly, Hughes never really did (though you'll remember I defended Hughes), Jol does. I know that answer won't satisfy you, Bandit, and might be discounted as 'not a proper reason' but he wouldn't be my choice, he just doesn't seem (to me) to fit us. If there was a vacancy, that is, which there isn't.
 
As Jol said in his internal interview last week, that horrible game against Sunderland was a 'ball breaker' in our season thus far. Despite the defeat, the fans were nonetheless very much in his corner. However, after the dire display against QPR he unquestionably lost a sizeable majority. Compounded by subsequent lacklustre performances it's not surprising that the fan's patience with him is fast falling. Blame can be directed at the players, but at the end of the day it is Jol's job to select and motivate the team.

Patience among fans is being further eroded with dithering in the transfer window. Jol has had four months to convince the Board of the positions that needed covering and who he wanted. If he hasn't done so, or they have changed their minds, suggests that the Board also are losing lost confidence in him.

Will he go after the West Ham game? No, it will be too late by then for such a dramatic decision with the transfer window all but closed.
 
Cottager58 said:
Patience among fans is being further eroded with dithering in the transfer window. Jol has had four months to convince the Board of the positions that needed covering and who he wanted. If, he hasn't done so, or they have changed their minds, suggests that the Board also are losing lost confidence in him.
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I think Cottager you summed it up well.

If the board has been hearing the same excuses behind the doors as they have probably lost patience as we have not improved after any of our "messiahs" came back!

Cottager58 said:
Will he go after the West Ham game? No, it will be too late by then for such a dramatic decision, with the transfer window all but closed.
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Unless according to Bandit's booking references the board have both found a replacement and talked to transfer targets... Fiction...

COYW
 
FFC_Madness said:
Unless according to Bandit's booking references the board have both found a replacement and talked to transfer targets... Fiction
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The thing is we would never know for sure. How many Southampton fans knew Cortese had already lined up Adkins's replacement before he was even out the door? If MAF has lost faith in Jol you can be sure he has already scouted for possible replacements. If you're not prepared for this sort of thing you end up like Wolves last season, forced to stick with the assistant.
 
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