Here is Matt Pyzdrowski's analysis of the first goal from the Athletic: West Ham 1-0 Liverpool (Alisson own goal) When I played, I always hated inswinging corners more than outswingers because the ball is coming towards you (and the target/goal), you have a load of people running towards you in a tight area and a lot can happen. Especially when the ball is hit with pace and to the front post. It’s such a deadly area as the attacking team can head it towards goal or flick the ball to the back post. Sometimes the attacking team can even block the goalkeeper if they overcrowd the first zone, and whip the ball in just above the crossbar. If the ball is swinging in it is hard to punch (or head) it away. Even in the moments when you or your team-mates do punch or head it away, you probably aren’t going to get much distance on the ball. The opponent can then keep the pressure on and you are forced to defend again. Any small deflections, obstructions or inconveniences can make a huge difference in the outcome — as we saw with Alisson against West Ham. Virtually from the beginning of the play, it was clear that Alisson was going to have quite the task ahead of him. From the onset, the West Ham striker Michail Antonio was on top of him in an attempt to neutralise the Liverpool goalkeeper. Antonio was tasked with being a nuisance, while the West Ham centre-back Angelo Ogbonna took up a position a few feet in front of Alisson. This essentially created a West Ham sandwich — with the goalkeeper stuck in the middle. As the corner is played in by Pablo Fornals, Antonio then leans into Alisson and, crucially, impedes and slows down his path to the ball. This was vital because it prevented Alisson from ever getting the proper momentum or angle to time his jump and attack the ball at its highest point — think of it in the same way that a defender bumps a player in an attempt to slow them down just as they are about to take off for a sprint. please log in to view this image When attacking balls into the box (from open play or set pieces) it’s vital that a goalkeeper uses the space in front of him to jump and attack the ball, bringing up a knee to create additional space between him and other players. Antonio’s bump and Ogbonna’s positioning makes this much harder for Alisson to do. Rather than take a few steps and explode towards the ball with a strong knee, Alisson instead resorted to attacking the ball from a standing position and then jumping off both feet towards the ball (instead of his preferred one at this moment). When Alisson eventually does attempt to jump he has the giant body of Ogbonna to contend with; his direct path to the ball is blocked. This creates all types of headaches for Alisson and is the type of situation that every goalkeeper dreads. please log in to view this image The timing of Ogbonna’s jump also plays a role. He is actually the first to jump, giving him the leverage and height necessary to challenge for the ball. By the time Alisson is finally able to get away from Antonio and go for the ball, an airborne Ogbonna has already created a barrier between goalkeeper and the ball. Then, as Ogbonna is coming back down to earth, his right arm — which at one point is extended above his head — prevents Alisson from extending two fists toward the ball. He is instead forced to try and reach for it with his left hand, despite having limited vision, sight or path to the ball. The combination of Ogbonna and Antonio threw off the Liverpool goalkeeper’s balance just as he jumped, ultimately forcing him to fall backwards. please log in to view this image You can clearly see in the replay below how Alisson tries to swing with his right arm toward the ball but is physically unable to due to the positioning of Ogbonna’s right arm. As to whether or not it’s a foul… Whether intentional or not, Ogbonna’s right arm prevents Alisson from using his tools (hands) to reach the ball, and that’s obviously why the Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp was so disappointed after the match in the decision by VAR to allow the goal. “The first goal is a foul on the goalie,” Klopp told Sky Sports. “The arm goes against Alisson’s arm, so how can he catch the ball when someone pulls his arm away? It makes no sense…What can (Alisson) do? That’s why the goalie is protected in moments. If a player goes up with his arm for a goalie that’s an important piece of the body and if that’s in the way how can he make a save?” It’s easy to say that Alisson should simply have been stronger, but it’s actually not being fair to him in this situation because there’s literally not much more he could have done given the circumstances. He is in the air, with his arms raised to punch the ball and his arm movement is directly impeded, causing him to be out of balance and punch the ball into the back of the net. The variables at play made it impossible for him to successfully do his job — and that’s ultimately what made him feel like it should have been a foul. I understand why some will feel it was correct to let the goal stand, but if I were Alisson I would feel incredibly hard done here — even helpless, like I never had a chance to do my job. Don’t forget, had Alisson shoved either Antonio or Ogbonna in this situation, or jumped over them and cleaned them out, a penalty would have been awarded. Sure, the goalkeeper has an advantage in using their hands, but the rule/protection of the goalkeeper is there for a reason, and if an opponent takes away that advantage or impedes a goalkeeper’s limb from being able to get to the ball, then it’s not hard to fathom why Liverpool felt that a foul should have been given.
what you rally want to see happen is some rank cheating. the fact is alisson was pushing antonio 2 or three times beofre that first or thrid corner was taken. What he should do is let the guy back in before its taken and fall over and shout at ref and then get 3 or 4 of our players round the ref right off. then the minute they go back and do it fall over again and ref has no option but to give a free. Same for henderosn he should have scream and rolled about 7 times like a fish flopping on a bank until the ref was forced to view the incident. we get NOTHING for playing fair.
You don't need a replay when involved (Hendo & Cresswell), you know what happened. Hendo (as victim and captain) should have made more of it But then, in days of VAR you shouldn't have too either
Listen, I work with a couple of Hammers fans. They were very quick to remind me that over the last few years, we've had the lion's share of marginal decisions against them. I think if we did that at the other end, it's disallowed: if they did that at Anfield it's disallowed (though didn't Burnley do something similar a couple of seasons ago at Anfield?). Same with the non sending-off : I've seen Alonso, Lampard and Gerrard all sent off for slipping and clattering in to someone in the past - I've seen Carra get away with kneecapping somebody. Just hardens my view that VAR is a homer every bit as much as Howard Webb was (except in the Virgil/De Gea case, 'natch). Deserved win to Hammers. We were dogshit in that second half, but the team of two years ago would have still got a point, if not all three. The midfield badly needs sorting, IMO. Apart from that - still a sound fortnight to annihilate Uniturd at OT AND qualify from the Group Of Death as winners in four games. Onwards.
when they are defending with 11 men and not doing anything but tackling they will get most decisions against them. so west ham fans have nothing to complain about. If we jumped into a keeper it would be a foul. it would 1000% a foul in Europe all day every day. Alisson needs to go down the minute 3 are round him. run into the guy before the thing is taken and drop and then the ref has no option but to watch what is going on. its a 1980s over the top of the ball, zero effort to think about the player, studs up challenge. for var to not at the very minimum make ref look at it means that VAR official should be taken off duty. I think gallagher commented there would not be a fuss if it had been a yellow at the time and a free. Zero effort to focus on the actual rules from gallagher. I agree though absolutely, a deserved win for west ham thereafter. I would rather win v brighton and west ham and lost to utd than get 4 points out of 9. **** utd. we have thrown away 5 points out of last 9 through being just plain rank at defending against good teams.
I still don’t get why one of our players wasn’t there just pushing Antonio out the way of alisson. Anotnio said after he does it a lot as a lot of team don’t have player there so he stands there to annoy the keeper. Get a player there to push him out the way with your body (not shove with the hands) and clear a space so Ali can have a bit of room to manoeuvre. Was bad enough it happened for first goal but was like we didn’t learn as just let Antonio do exactly the same for the 3rd
just go down clutching your face when he pushes back and they will run out of the area quick smart. I agree with you we should be doing it. I can guarantee they know they are trying it on and have a plan b if a ref calls them out on it.
It’s being savvy and part of the game. West Ham had a game plan to put the GK under pressure, that’s why they have the most goals from corners in the league. We simply have to devise a way of counter this kind of threat. The first goal was a tough one to take but as many here have said we would be upset if that was ruled out had we scored the same goal. The second one was avoidable in the sense that the counter could have been stopped at the start of the counter. The third one was avoidable in the sense that Zouma had a clear and unchallenged header with TAA rooted to the spot. But realistically Zouma v TAA in a heading contest there is only one winner. We simply have to work on our set piece defending as other teams will identify it as one of our few weaknesses.
People can see the same thing and interpret it differently. On one hand Henderson is an honest player who doesn't feign injury, but on the other hand Cresswell is also an honest player. They may have interpreted it as a 50/50 in which Henderson came out the wrong side of. The VAR decision was a bottlejob, if it was at Anfield I think Cresswell was a goner but this league is littered with weak minded refs that follow the narrative from their bosses.
I had complimentary tickets for this game and was sitting amongst West Ham fans, who TBF didn’t understand how that wasn’t a red card. Says something when the opposition fans expect one there own to be sent off!
A lot of the issues around VAR is about the “clear and obvious error” from the referee. What does this mean? The penalty against Spurs was ruled out because the GK was deemed to have touched the ball before taking Richarlison out. Was it such a clear and obvious error? The ref was yards from the incident and had a clear sight of it. Could easily have been given. In cresswell’s case, the ref was also close. He clearly saw the incident. He didn’t deem it a dangerous foul and VAR didn’t see it as a clear and obvious error so let it go. We have to get rid of that “ clear and obvious” criterion. An error is an error.
The problem i've had with VAR from day one is that decisions always come down to opinion. You can't have a game where every decision made is 100% accurate because to some degree it always comes down to opinion - all Liverpool fans will say it was a red and all West Ham fans will say it wasn't; neutrals would lean towards red. Evans on Aubameyang last week was as clear as day a red card but not given, that same week Villa got a red with the exact same foul on Bowen.
The irony is that VAR was supposed to be objective. What it turned out is yet another referee with his own additional subjectivity and weaknesses. What the PGMOL have to do is to remove these elements of subjectivity from the VAR decisions. And if opinion has to play a part then VAR shouldn’t be the one making the judgement and the referee shouldn’t automatically change his decision once he’s called to the video screen.
Ffs why does football have to make things complicated,the clear and obvious error is a load of bollocks for a start.Whether or not the ref has made a clear and obvious error or not if he's missed something that var shows up then go by that decision. Don't have all this bollocks with TMO in rugby,get screens up and refs miked up so the fans know why the decisions are being made. It's not rocket science ffs.
It never could be though, and anyone who believed it could was being naive. I said before it even started that refereeing is subjective and arbitrary, and it can never be anything else - a ref can't always be right but some bugger has to make a (supposedly) impartial judgement. All VAR could ever do was either move the subjectivity upstairs or add another layer onto that already experienced through the pitch officials. I thought it might have been capable of ruling effectively on offside decisions, but even that turned out to be a false hope because the tech didn't match the expectations made of it. The only difference it makes is to allow someone more time to scrutinise incidents to see whether there's something the ref has missed - but quite frankly, as long as he sees it, the ref is in a better position to judge in real time whether contact is sufficient to warrant a foul, or whether excessive force is used. He hasn't got eyes in the back of his head, so it can be useful in advising him of something he's missed. Trying to turn football into a video game is a forlorn hope, until we do away with real players and it becomes just that.
Goalkeeper must be protected, but it is not always easy, however, if it was West Ham Goalkeeper that was fouled and resulted in a goal, David Moyes will certainly complain.
Look cricket improved by having the umpires call being vital and everyone accepts it. I dont think having var is bad with refs opinion counting but it should be open. I would want to hear the conversation between the clown var and clown ref who discussed cresswell going over the top of the ball studs showing straight legged and give nothing. There has to be a process to decide these thing and theres clearly excessive force and recklessness involved. In rugby you can listen in and they discuss mitigating factors like guys dipping down into a tackle and if these two discussed cresswell bouncing off top of ball and rather than breaking Henderson's leg by hitting the shin he merely studded his knee. Pricks.
