Wenger loves

Drudeboy

Drudeboy

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2011
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Wenger: "I love Arshavin"
Wenger: "I love the FA Cup"

(takes from sky sports article titles)

Is he subtly insinuating that the FA Cup is lazy, off-form and seemingly useless, telling the intelligent people in the World that he will play a B team for it and suggesting 'between the lines' that we should bet on Arsenal losing tomorrow?

Or does he just a bit gay?
 
PNEawf said:
If we were a top team we could attract top players. We are a feeder club now.
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To who? The only top player we sold was Cesc and was because he wanted to play for his childhood club
The reason we haven't bought anyone is because no one is available
 
leave him be half full. PNEawf, jayram and a few others on this board are just completely against wenger. its as if they don't remember when we did well... maybe they're 'loser' seekers, y'know, like the opposite of glory seekers.
 
Jayramfootball said:
I do remember very well. No-one is saying Wenger didnt do a good job in the first 7-8 years, but that does not write him a blank cheque forever. We have been decling for 7 years and have no trophies. That in itself is an issue, but when the same mistakes happen over and and over again with no apparent learning questions have to be asked.

Unless you are saying that Wenger is just beyond criticism all we are talking about here is that 'PNEawf, Jayram, and a few others' (actaully a lot of others) have just made there mind up more quickly than you. It might take 10 years for you to agree but I promise you this, we are going nowhere under Wenger.
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I'm kidding mate. didn't u see my article i think titled "transfer window"? (it might have been that 1) i also agree wenger needs to leave. i was wumming for fun :emoticon-0102-bigsm
 
theHotHead said:
Funny how other teams manage to have a squad of players while operating under the same constraints as us.
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Only one team is managing to employ Clichy, Adebayor, Toure & Nasri (the 4 I was referring to) and that's City. For you to suggest we can match their spending power is more than a little absurd tbh.
 
Drudeboy said:
leave him be half full. PNEawf, jayram and a few others on this board are just completely against wenger. its as if they don't remember when we did well... maybe they're 'loser' seekers, y'know, like the opposite of glory seekers.
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Aaaaah ... memories. Did you know that football was beamed to TVs in black and white once upon a time. Liverpool USED to win championships too. History .... did you know dinosaurs once walked the earth, behemoths they were I tell you. Does anyone remember what Formula 1 cars looked like in the 80s ?? Madness I tell you and the first F1 cars with rear wings looked absurd, they were up in the air .. possibly 2 metres off the ground. Bizarre really, thank goodness for wind tunnels and computer modelling eh.

Memories .... why look to the future when you can live in the past <ok>
 
Jayramfootball said:
My main issue with his management is that he he does not have the skills to set up a team to win big games
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Jayram, I don't agree with this at all. WE have won lots of big games with Wenger, need I remind you of winning the league at Old Trafford ? We wouldn't possibly have gone the entire season unbeaten had he not set up the team to win big games.

The problem is simple, he's buying the wrong players now and not playing the right systems.
 
Half Full said:
Only one team is managing to employ Clichy, Adebayor, Toure & Nasri (the 4 I was referring to) and that's City. For you to suggest we can match their spending power is more than a little absurd tbh.
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In fairness if you dropped Almunia and Arshavin's wages you could have afforded Clichy.

If you had dropped Arteta and Chamakh's wages you could have afforded Nasri.

Theres too many "squad players" in Arsenals side right now and a reluctance to give enough to keep your top players.

But the same will happen to Spurs over the next few seasons with people coming in for Modric and Bale.
 
This argument has got a little murky.

Wenger doesnt buy players, Wenger buys too many players, Wenger doesn't buy the right players, Wenger sold too many players, the squad isn't deep enough... I'm not sure a few of those aren't mutually exclusive.

I still maintain that Arsenal fans are upset with results, rather than anything specific Wenger has done. As soon as people start to critique his actual decisions, the argument often breaks down.

With our injury record, the last few years, we have played up to 35-40 different players in a season. With a youth program and a reserve squad 71 players isn't that much.
 
Jayramfootball said:
71 players isn't much - its gone up from 46 a couple of years ago! These are paid playing staff too.

Rest assured the criticisms have been of Wenger and they are very legitimate. He is in charge and he is failing. From coaching to transfers he is responsible for getting things right and he hasnt done it for a long time.
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What is the Pass mark?
 
Jayramfootball said:
There are a few.

Overall its winning a trophy, but even if we didnt I would support him if he :

Stopped persisting with players that are not good enough for too long.
Coached his team to cut out the stupid mistakes that happen time and time again - I am not talking about the mistakes that can just happen once or twice, but the failure to get the absolute basics right again and again and again.
Had a strategy going into games against better opponents, instead of just 'seeing what happens' with the same tactics he always uses.
Ensured that we have a strong squad, and are not so destroyed when we get injuries.
Stopped the excuses before and after games
Consistently motivated his team to put in 100% effort every game.
Got a defensive coach to help him with a part of the game he clearly does not understand that well.
Had a plan B during a game if it is going wrong for us
Told the players to stop trying to walk the ball into the net
Cut out the boring sideways and backwards passing game - fine occasionally to relieve pressure but we seem to spend half the match doing it.

Just a few
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To deal with your criticisms:

1. Arshavin is the only one in my opinion that falls into this category - can't understand it either.
2. Dont agree with this. Everytime we let in a goal, some wag says that we didn't get the basics right, but mistakes happen. Every goal scored is a mistake of some sort.
3. I don't think you really know this. This is a huge assumption. How do you know what his tactics are?
4. No team can win with injuries like we have. Even Mancini was bleating about being short of players and he has fewer out than we do.
5. When you are asked what is wrong, and why did you lose, anything you say in reply is likely to be considered an excuse. This one is weak.
6. Again, saying the players don't give 100% is just wrong and I think a little malicious. I don't see signs of his at all. If anything I think a few players have tried too hard and got winded.
7. He has many defensive coaches. Really don't get this.
8. This plan B stupidity again. What is this plan B rubbish. If you buy players for a 433, you train players every day in a 433, why in the world would you think they could do better in a 442? This doesn't even work in Championship Manager any more.
9. Does he do this? Please show me the quote?
10. Havent seen the manager play a single pass all season.

I think it still comes down to you thinking you could manage the club better, based on a financial situation you are guessing at, and tactical instructions he has given, which you are also guessing at. But you only think that because you don't like the results he is getting.

What is interesting is that you are not alone. The average Arsenal fan, despite it being utterly crazy that they would be able to manage a football team, and a football club, believes that they could do both better than a man that even other managers say is one of the best, and a board that are running a club that everyone says is one of the best run, most financially sound football clubs in the world.

This despite the fact that most of those fans don't have the coaching qualifications to manage a team of 13 year-olds and don't know the fundementals of corporate finance. The 'mob' mentality gathers credentials and strength from numbers, not the voracity of the argument, nor their qualifications, or the weight of evidence.

I will accept that Wenger and the board are not winning trophies and I would like them to do that. However, I don't know whether it is reasonable for me to expect trophies, or not. I am a qualified football coach and a referee, and I have worked in finance, but I don't feel qualified to judge Wenger, because I just don't know enough facts.

All I can tell you, is that if the teams I coached did exactly what I wanted them to do, only half the time, I'd be manager of England right now. And if all my investments in people, or the market, worked exactly the way I thought they would, only half the time, I'd be Bill Gates. You are in error if you think that the star players you would sign, would automatically be successful, or that the money you invested in them would make the club stronger, or that tactics would work out the way you would like.

(By the way, I am not Fabio Capello, or Bill Gates)
 
Jayramfootball said:
I do not believe I could do a better job than Wenger. Let's cut that out right now.

1. Denilson, Senderos, Cygan, Arshavin, Chamakh, Djourou, Bendtner, Squillaci, Fabianski, Almunia, Diaby. I could go on from yesteryear.
2. We'll agree to disagree. To give you an example the goal conceded today was a short corner and an emmediate 2 on 1. It's happen several times this season. Basics.
3. I watch the games and see us play the same way each game - even away to Utd with a weakened squad.
4. Wrong. Utd won the title with a whol ehost of injuries because they had a deep squad.
5. You dont have to blame the pitch, the referee's, UEFA, the schedule, the other teamms tactics. he does it all the time and many are sick of it.
6. Again we'll agree to disagree. I have seen games like today when in the first half teh players did not close down Villa. In the second half they changed completely. It's happened on several occassions
7. They are clearly not doing their job as our defence has been **** for a while. Check how many goals we have conceded this year and last. It's been getting steadily worse.
8. If something is not working you change it. Not sure why that is so hard to understand. It's happened in football since the dawn of the game. He used to do it himself - playing Keown as aman marker in midfield to nullify the creative threat of the oposition in tough away games.
9. You dont need a quote - you see it in every game. I do also recall a player saying that Wenger gets angry if a shot is taken if there is a player in a better position. Google it.
10. The manager is responsible for how the team play. I would be very surprised if that is not how they trained. It's madness to suggest that the team go out and play a style that is contrary to what they have trained to do all week.

It's fine to disagree, but cut out the football manager rubbish. As fans we can have opinions. If you yourself think you need to be qualified to criticise Wenger then don't comment at all.

In terms of the financials you dont have to guess - the financial reports are available and go into detail. If you study them as I do then its clear we have money to spend if we wanted to.
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You are entitled to your opinion, but don't tell me that I am not entitled to mine. My opinion based on lack of a factual argument from you, or anything other than a gross over-simplification of the issues, is that your opinion is unqualified and that it carries no weight.


So you think Wenger is a poor coach, who misses the obvious tactically, plays the wrong players, buys the wrong players and doesn't spend money because he is stubborn and doesnt care if Arsenal don't win.

I think you over-simplify, don't understand the complexity of managing, coaching or running a modern football club and are forming your opinion based solely on the fact that Arsenal don't win trophies.

I wonder who is most likely to be correct.
 
just visiting - I'm not stayiing....

'So you think Wenger is a poor coach, who misses the obvious tactically, plays the wrong players, buys the wrong players and doesn't spend money because he is stubborn'

A good summary.
 
ToledoTrumpton said:
This argument has got a little murky.

Wenger doesnt buy players, Wenger buys too many players, Wenger doesn't buy the right players, Wenger sold too many players, the squad isn't deep enough... I'm not sure a few of those aren't mutually exclusive.

I still maintain that Arsenal fans are upset with results, rather than anything specific Wenger has done. As soon as people start to critique his actual decisions, the argument often breaks down.

With our injury record, the last few years, we have played up to 35-40 different players in a season. With a youth program and a reserve squad 71 players isn't that much.
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I haven't looked at Jayram's list but here are my issues with Wenger:

1) General refusal to make changes quickly. He did so against Man U which was the first time I can remember.
2) He doesn't pick teams to suit playing the opposition.
3) He doesn't pick formations or change formations to suit playing opposition
4) He continually plays players out of position making them completely useless to us
5) He is tactically ****e
6) He buys too many players not fit for purpose
7) He is ungracious in defeat


thats my list of annoyances regarding Le Prof
 
ToledoTrumpton said:
To deal with your criticisms:

1. Arshavin is the only one in my opinion that falls into this category - can't understand it either.Bendtner, Walcott, Almunia, Fabianksi, Diaby on the left, Djourou
2. Dont agree with this. Everytime we let in a goal, some wag says that we didn't get the basics right, but mistakes happen. Every goal scored is a mistake of some sort. WE let in goals mostly by bad defending/defensive errors. Pundits always say we are not good at defending set pieces. when was the last time a good goal was scored against us ?
3. I don't think you really know this. This is a huge assumption. How do you know what his tactics are? He Doesn't have a strategy going in to games against better teams, it is the same strategy, the same formation, the same tactics. Whereas Man U will pack the midfield and play 1 up top against us and sit back and hit us on the break because they know defensively we are frail.
4. No team can win with injuries like we have. Even Mancini was bleating about being short of players and he has fewer out than we do.Other teams manage their injuries far better than us because we have ZERO squad depth. Man U didn't have any CBs a little while ago and Carrick had to play in defence, remember ? Injuries are part of football thats why we have a squad
5. When you are asked what is wrong, and why did you lose, anything you say in reply is likely to be considered an excuse. This one is weak. Wenger is full of excuses, from the pitch is bad (Swansea) to players were tired (after an International break. Ungracious in defeat too.
6. Again, saying the players don't give 100% is just wrong and I think a little malicious. I don't see signs of his at all. If anything I think a few players have tried too hard and got winded. You don't see signs because you have your eyes wide shut ! How many times has he said "the players were a little bit complacent" or "we took our foot off the gas" ?
7. He has many defensive coaches. Really don't get this. Mertesacker is quoted as saying that recently they have spent more time on defensive training which suggests they were not spending enough time on it before
8. This plan B stupidity again. What is this plan B rubbish. If you buy players for a 433, you train players every day in a 433, why in the world would you think they could do better in a 442? This doesn't even work in Championship Manager any more. your comments here are utter stupidity and I will not comment on it. I will say that seeing Wenger banging his head against a brick wall for 80mins and not getting anywhere is testament to the fact that - he has no plan B or C for that matter.
9. Does he do this? Please show me the quote? If Wenger, as manager, didn't encourage overplaying it he would tell his players to cut it out. simple. By allowing them to do it he sanctions it.
10. Havent seen the manager play a single pass all season.We have gone from a winning tactic of quick counter attacking football to slow. ponderous, sideways football which wins us nada
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I have countered your counter comments in bold <ok>

You may be a coach but I've played for enough managers to know that, having FA badges means F'all if you've never played football to a decent level and if you don't understand football. I've also played at a high enough level to know that, when a manager tells you to do something, you better do it otherwise you will be taken off and lose your place in the team. I don't need FA badges to know why English players are so bad, you have the likes of Howard Wilkinson who was heading up the FA's Technical Development section - and where is his legacy of young English footballers ? English managers and coaches are only now learning how to coach kids - 20 years behind the rest of Europe they are !!

Toledo - if you are going to argue, don't stick your head in the ground !!
 
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