If this happens I will seriously start to consider not following any football for the foreseeable future.
I've got to agree. It saddens me to see people clinging to a few lines of verbal bollocks from the fat man, in the desperate hope that he has 'finally learnt his lesson' and that he will 'definitely do things differently' because there's 'just no way he would risk relegation again' ................. those are the most delusional Geordies of all, because it must surely be plain to see for all now that the thick headed **** just hasn't got a clue how to run a football club and hasn't got a ****ing clue how to select professionals that do know what they are doing. He would rather get cheap labour in, like one of the sweat shops where his sportswear tat is made. On the rare occasion that he does stumble upon a credible footballing person like Rafa or Keegan or even Fat Sam in some respects, he revels in making an absolute **** of them for no apparent reason. Perhaps its because they wont join him down The Fat Ox for a piss up / business meeting / vomiting in the fireplace session so he takes offence................. or perhaps its because he is, always was and always will be a complete moron who has no ****ing clue what he is doing and does not give one flying **** about NUFC. The sooner he sells up and ****s off the better. And for those that say 'be careful what you wish for'................. well I never ever wished for this!!
I hardly ever come over to the dark side guys, just pinging around the forum's, but I'm genuinely shocked at the lack of confidence over here for the coming season. I'd have thought you guys would be right up for it this season. I'm not here taking the piss, just really surprised actually. Do many of you guys really see yourselves as relegation fodder?
I count around 4 reckon we're relegation fodder; me, Chaos, DPP and Hank (hope I'm not out of line). The rest of the lads are all more or less a mix of reality and optimism. Not that bad overall, I just type far too much when I'm fcked off.
I don't see a sinister plan being played out by Ashley. I'm sure he'd rather Newcastle do well, but he just isn't interested in NUFC and in my opinion has basically said just run it how you like (within a certain agreed framework) but don't bother me with it and certainly don't come to me for more money. Fair enough, the club should be self-sufficient, although of course it would be nice to have a more ambitions owner who would bank roll the club. The problem with this approach is our cash flow is in a poor state following a year in the Championship and with players costing unreasonable amounts, some not seeing us as such an attractive place to place football, and us struggling to shift our deadwood, we are having a hard time of it. For Rafa to achieve what he wanted in this window he is going to have to ask the owner for money and that is going to go down like a pint of sick with Ashley and hence it is entirely possible that Rafa could walk if he doesn't get that. If he does go I think I'll be getting an insurance bet on relegation. A few years ago I was openly critical of Ashley because I said he was trying to stockpile cash rather than spend it, which he was. At the time I reckoned the club had built up £80m in cash reserves and that is almost exactly what we spent under the season with McLaren after Ashley clearly changed his policy when we were almost relegated. Since that point I'm fairly sure he has let the money we have had in the bank be spent by the manager and don't think it's any different now, other than the fact we just don't have much money. He needs to give the club/Rafa a short term loan/overdraft to get a couple more players in and get it back when some of the TV money comes in. One thing we can't know is if he has imposed a transfer limit on any individual purchase but if he has and it is stopping any deals being made, perhaps that should be reviewed, although it could be argued that waiting until the end of the window may see some fees come down. This is kind of why I'm still reserving judgement until the end of August - it's entirely possible we'll get a couple more players in who are decent if not spectacular and we'll all be a bit more positive about the season. Let's face it, Newcastle fans are not the most patient and are quick to tell everyone it's all doom and gloom so the slightly tense mood at the moment may be being overplayed.
Just read Daztoc's last post again. An expectation to suddenly be able to compete with the big boys immediately, and if it doesn't happen, then relegation is inevitable. Doesn't always work that way though does it. There are clubs far smaller than you guys getting by up there. Patience.
We are certainly in going to be in the bottom 6/7 with this team and we could be in the mire if things don't go our way. Some people's expectations (perhaps including Rafa) were that we'd have more money to spend and have brought in a bit more quality and a couple more heads by now so I think the gap between those expectations and reality is what's giving the negativity at the moment. The squad's a bit better than last season but the general feeling is that it needs to be stronger as nobody wants a relegation scrap. I'm looking forward to the season, though, all the same. If for nothing else than I'll get to see every match.
Spot on mate, we're a work in progress and should not be viewed as anything else. Personally I'm ****ing delighted we're out the championship and back to prem football, I'll be ****ed if I let Mike Ashley being an arsehole ruin that for me, after the last decade im somewhat used to it
In the long run it might be a good thing that we don't have loads of money in this window (provided we stay up that is). No matter how much money we had it would be a struggle to attract the best players to a promoted team. What we might have ended up with was the mercenaries chasing money and exposure who had no commitment to the club (like Sissoko). We still have too many of them on our books as it is. Unfortunately, with the money they are on, they are happy to stay here and not play rather than make a move. Hopefully we can shift some before the window closes, but if not then hopefully a few months training with the kids will encourage them to move in January.
I am one of the "optimist/realist" brigade. With the current squad we would be in the relegation mix though might squeak by. With two or three decent buys we should be clear of serious relegation concerns but would be doing very well to bag 12th. I think we will get a couple of decent buys before the window shuts. As things stand, though, it would be worth a fairly chunky insurance bet so I could at least afford to get well and truly pissed if we went down.
If Rafa keeps us up with this squad I can guarantee players will be itching to join us next year, or even Jan depending on form. People need to stop thinking we're Juventus returning to serie A, just go look at our finishes the years before we went down, aside from 5th we were always closer to relegation, and that's how players will view us.
Ashley's problem is that he refuses to battle with the owners who invest £150m every year to get the top 4. So after that, you're left with 5-17th places and anywhere in that bracket will do him nicely. There's no point investing £80m to finish 8th when you can finish 15th for £20m. The extra £60m is busted money, utterly pointless aside from the £12m extra you'd get from the league place finish. Your owner has no ambition to challenge the top clubs, it's risk that would cost him way more than a relegation if it went wrong.
I think it's worse than that. It's not the top 4 that is out of reach but the top 6. Not just for us either. You may get one offs like Leicester, but no team can compete long term with the income of the top 6 sides. It wouldn't just be the owner's money at stake, but the existence of the club. It's not impossible for a new team to work their way into that top bracket, but it is something beyond the means of virtually every club - and even with new investors they would still have to comply with FFP which protects the current top club's places.
Trading properly can get you into that top bracket, just look at Spurs. All they've had that you haven't had is ambition, the London thing doesn't wash with me. Rafa Benitez could turn a couple of your signings into £35m players this season if he's not got the burden of a relegation battle to deal with and the players are good enough obviously. You can only trade players for a profit with good coaching so the players can express their talent, you can't have a good coach long-term with no ambition.
I agree, but it would be a very slow and long process. Even comparing us to Spurs, our income is about half of theirs. It would take more than two or three 35 million pound players to put that right. And even then, should we be aiming to keep those players and show some ambition by holding onto our talent. It isn't impossible, but it is definitely a bit of a vicious circle for most clubs. Everton are the closest to bridging the gap, but even they have gambled and need to have a very good season after the money they have spent.
Good points but Spurs never achieved any of it overnight either. There's no doubt that they have invested well in their academy and they have a good coaching and manager set up but they've always backed their managers. They had ambition though, your owner has none. I have no idea what he's doing in football really, he just seems like a rich, chubby mong.
I think we are in a bit of catch 22 situation in some respects also which is probably where the frustrations from Rafa's side are coming from....the media obviously jump on this and interpret this as Rafa not being happy because he hasn't been able to bring in the players he's wanted etc etc. In reality we have a number of players who by all accounts will not get near the first team unless we have a serious spell of injuries. Players like Krul and Riviere to name but a couple. Players, who if called upon could do a job but ideally we want rid of them so we can (a) get them off the wage bill and (b) bring in better replacements. I think i'm right in thinking that we need to name a 25 man squad, so unless we get replacements for these players who we want to move on then some of them may have to be included in the 25 man squad, doesn't stop them being shifted on in January but it's clear that Rafa wants to clear the decks as he has targets identified for certain positions but for one reason or another fatty doesn't wanna pay players wages who aren't gonna be playing.
