Weekend Discussion

[Doc]

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Well enough has been said by everyone about last weekend, so lets all hope for a reaction tomoz against the toffees. I’m settling for 4-1 home win and chants of Benitez out.


On the transfer front the club seem to be saying business is done, but without actually confirming that no more arrivals are due. My take is that Leeds have told clubs who are holding out with extortionate transfer fees that it aint happening. You never know it may force someone to revise their asking price especially at a time when clubs are skint? Lets see what happens over the next 10 days, as there are murmurings coming out of Belgium today.


One deal that seems to have been ongoing for weeks is for the 17yo Norwegian protégé Leo Hjelde from Celtic. Yes he will provisionally be coming to bolster the U23s, but this kid has over 1,000 minutes as a starter in first team SPL football. He spent half a season on loan at Ross County and their manager is raving about him. He says he is the best CB in the league and likened him to Van Djik. He also said he was lucky to get him because he knew Leeds Utd wanted him last season. Celtic bought him from Rosenborg youth and he was listed as one of the most promising talents in Scandinavia. He is a specialist LB but also covers CB with ease. He’s also a big lad for his age and not easily pushed around. At 6’2” he’s also a unit for any winger to get past when he plays LB. He plays Norwegian International football at U16, 17 and 18 levels.


Last Summer we drafted in Joe Gelhardt, Crysencio Summerville, Cody Drameh and Sam Greenwood. All 4 were a massive success and all play International football at U19 level, Drameh is also about to be named in the England U21 squad too.This season we have pushed the boat out again for Amari Miller, Lewis Bate and Sean McGurk and Mark Jackson now needs to find the best blend to get the best out of this seasons Prem2 Div1 squad. They started slow last week but came good in the end with a 1-3 win at Palace. In fairness we dominated but squandered chances and unusually it was Joffy who was off his game. Next game is at home on Monday against Spurs and it will be interesting to see how Jacko shuffles the pack, and as we have a Carabo Cup match the following evening, will the 23s be without one or two on Monday to make up numbers against Crewe Tuesday?


Last season was another good one for U23 CB pairings as Ollie Casey (20) linked up with Charlie Cresswell (17) and they were by far the dominant defensive duo in the league. Ollie was sold to Blackpool this summer and Charlie has been paired with a couple of the U18s so far in pre-season. Nohan Kenneh (18) a DM who was promoted to the 23s half way through last season has had a couple of goes but got a torrid time against Ajax. Kris Moore (17) was given a couple of goes and equipped himself well, so as soon as Hjelde arrives Jacko can try him at CB or as well as use him as a specialist LB as we don’t have one now due to Leif Davies out on loan at Bournemouth and Huggins who had a medical yesterday at Sunderland. Jacko has been using winger Liam McCarron at LB and although done well he’s not Niall Huggins. So again some interesting positional pairings.


Jack Jenkins has done a great pre season as DM but who will take the slot on a regular basis as Lewis Bate usually plays there. Bielsa wants all his players able to play a number of positions, so will we see Bate pushed further forward? Miller on one side and Summerville on the other seems scary and should bring dividends, but Summerville is also competent playing in the hole. Where will Joffy and Greenwood play this season as McGurk can also play wing too as well as 10.Stuart McKinstry is also a winger Looking forward to it.


Players gone so far from the U23s:

• Bogutsz
• Kiko
• Edmondson
• McCalmont
• Kun
• Mujica
• Casey
• Huggins
• Davies

Still to be arranged:

• Hosannah
• Stevens
• Gotts
• Kamwa

Bielsa said yesterday that the U23s reach a level and they cannot improve further in that environment, so either need to be able to play first team football or go out on loan or be sold to other clubs who can give them game time. This is the next part of their education and ‘I hope all come back to Leeds as much improved players who are able to play first team football’ we know however that very few are going to be able to do that. Poveda seems to be having trouble because hes dropped from the first tam bench and not got into the U23 squad. This may change at the weekend, but right now he may have not made the progress Bielsa wanted and could be on

 

[Doc]

Its official Niall Huggins has signed a 4 year contract with Sunderland. Good luck fella

 

[milkyboy]

… reports seem to suggest it’s on a free?

You’d kind of hope one of the stars of our 23s would command a fee

 

[wakeybreakyheart]

I like the way kiko is classed as an u23 player. Although i do think it's a touch insulting to the rest of the lads. I mean he never reached their standards did he

 

[Doc]

… reports seem to suggest it’s on a free?

You’d kind of hope one of the stars of our 23s would command a fee

Sunderland couldn't afford a fee, so Leeds had Coventry City, Blackburn Rovers and Swansea City lined up, but Huggins preferred Sunderland personal terms as well as a 4-year contract. The Blackburn deal couldn't be straight away as they need to have FA sanctions lifted, so in the end the club got the transfer fee by Huggins getting out of his contract which was due to end at the end of the 22/23 season.

 

[ristac]

I hope we’re clearing the decks for Noa Lang and the guy from Huddersfield or Burnley as Bielsa seems to rate them, then I’d feel it’s been a good transfer window. I’d love to know which players we were genuinely interested in out of the dozens of targets we were linked with. Let’s hope our new person in charge of loans starts making us a bit of profit soon

 

[Doc]

… reports seem to suggest it’s on a free?

You’d kind of hope one of the stars of our 23s would command a fee

Kiko was put there because thats where the loan players were taken from and also I have amended the 23s sticky because Huggins has been sold not loaned out

 

[ristac]

Sunderland couldn't afford a fee, so Leeds had Coventry City, Blackburn Rovers and Swansea City lined up, but Huggins preferred Sunderland personal terms as well as a 4-year contract. The Blackburn deal couldn't be straight away as they need to have FA sanctions lifted, so in the end the club got the transfer fee by Huggins getting out of his contract which was due to end at the end of the 22/23 season.

We rarely ever pick up a freebie like this yet for the last umpteen years we seem to feel we’ve done okay in the transfer market if we let them go for free but save a wage. Only twice have we ever done well that I can remember, Clarke and McCormack

 

[NostradEmus]

Hindsight suggests we did OK with the Viera transfer although at the time I thought we had our pants pulled down.

Did we get any add-ons for Pontus getting Brentford up?

The money we lost on Lennon, Snodgrass, Beckford, Delph, Howson, Becchio and Co still baffles me to this day.

 

[Doc]

We rarely ever pick up a freebie like this yet for the last umpteen years we seem to feel we’ve done okay in the transfer market if we let them go for free but save a wage. Only twice have we ever done well that I can remember, Clarke and McCormack

How much do you think a 20yo academy product is worth? 100k max maybe less. Higgins has never been designated as one of the so-called golden kids like the ones we’ve signed recently and even these are big gambles. How much do you think Huggins gets paid, because he was given a nice pay rise when he signed his recent 3 year contract and played his first match in the first team against Arsenal. I can guarantee his contract is worth more than his transfer fee. So in reality the club have got a good deal

 

[milkyboy]

Sunderland couldn't afford a fee, so Leeds had Coventry City, Blackburn Rovers and Swansea City lined up, but Huggins preferred Sunderland personal terms as well as a 4-year contract. The Blackburn deal couldn't be straight away as they need to have FA sanctions lifted, so in the end the club got the transfer fee by Huggins getting out of his contract which was due to end at the end of the 22/23 season.

… a contract extension he only signed in December, which presumably now looks like it was done to protect him as a sellable asset

whichever way you spin it, it seems a strange bit of business.

 

[Doc]

… a contract extension he only signed in December, which presumably now looks like it was done to protect him as a sellable asset

whichever way you spin it, it seems a strange bit of business.

Agreed and you will notice that most players who go out on loan get a new contract to make sure theres a value. We got 90k for Casey but hardly getting any loan fees on those sent out because they are lower league clubs and it benefits us getting the player experience. Anyone being loaned into the Championship can expect to get us a loan fee. We got cash for Halme and a few others that went to Fleetwood, Barnsley sold off.

 

[Doc]

Caliagri now stuck with Nahitan Nandez as Spurs deffo not buying him as too expensive. Inter Milan and AC Milan cannot afford him. Price will be dropping because He isnt staying at Caliagri and gone missing AWOL Walkabout.

 

[ellandback]

We rarely ever pick up a freebie like this yet for the last umpteen years we seem to feel we’ve done okay in the transfer market if we let them go for free but save a wage. Only twice have we ever done well that I can remember, Clarke and McCormack

Who is Leeds’ best free transfer since 2000?

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By Phil Hay

Leeds United’s attitude towards the transfer market in the years when all ambition seeped from the club was nicely explained by a conversation a few days before the start of the 2012-13 season.

I’d been to Thorp Arch to interview Neil Warnock for a newspaper feature and he put as positive a spin as he could on a squad which was several dancers short of a ceilidh. When the tape was shut off, he sat back in his chair, put his hands behind his head and said, “I’m going to tell you something you can’t print. I’m thinking about signing El Hadji Diouf.”

I gave him a non-committal look, and thought about Diouf. Given Warnock’s position, I could see why a wildcard who caused trouble everywhere he went was tempting him. Warnock needed a forward and a winger but could not afford both. Diouf could fill either position and on his day (whenever that happened to be) possessed ability in abundance. Moreover — and here was the rub — Diouf was a free agent and had asked for only £5,000 a week. What was the worst that could happen? And did it matter that Warnock referred to him 18 months earlier as a “sewer rat”?

Other managers who went in and out of Elland Road wrestled with their own budgetary constraints. Leeds, particularly while the orders from the top were being issued by Ken Bates, took a minimalist approach to expenditure on players, impervious to the idea that investment equalled aspiration. It was Shaun Harvey, Bates’ chief executive and long-time boardroom ally, who once claimed that supporters craving higher transfer fees would be happy to see a million pounds spent on a sack of potatoes, just to be able to say that the club had spent a million pounds. What became apparent over time was that sacks of potatoes cost football clubs a fraction of that price.

In the aftermath of the 2006 Championship play-off final, perhaps the most consequential defeat in their entire history, Leeds leaned heavily on trialists, free agents, loanees and low-cost signings.

The least successful of those frees were hit-and-hope stop-gaps, often turned to when the club were trying to plug a dam with their pinkie finger. It was depressing to watch a beleaguered Gary McAllister making a ‘sign-him-up’ gesture to technical director Gwyn Williams after trialist Mansour Assoumani scored in a reserve game at Elland Road in December 2008. Nobody knew much about Assoumani, an obscure French defender, and Sheffield United had already said no to him. Leeds gave him a whirl, Assoumani played in their next League One game at MK Dons, Leeds lost 3-1 and McAllister was sacked. Assoumani? Gone within a month for a trial at Crewe Alexandra, who also turned him down, before ending up at non-League Wrexham.

The wayward free transfers at Elland Road stack up high.

Tore Andre Flo arrived from afar (also known as Valerenga back in his native Norway) and was quickly injured. Michael Ricketts descended from top-flight Middlesbrough and then hung around, getting loaned out three times, waiting to leave. Going back a little further, Paul Okon was famously the target of a scathing match rating in the Yorkshire Evening Post which read, “Wasn’t expected to play and didn’t.” As for the 2011 night when Paul Rachubka melted at Elland Road, it is best summed up by the Leeds official who was overhead outside the ground saying, “We’ll have to get another keeper before Sunday.”

But at other points, Leeds have had some effective hits without spending a fee: Neil Sullivan, Rob Green and Davide Somma to name three. Sullivan was the right goalkeeper at the right time, a calm mind in the madness of 2004, and Green did a similarly good turn for Garry Monk three seasons ago. Somma’s name will for ever prompt the question ‘What if?’, a striker whose fragile knee ligaments stole a promising career from him.

But when it came to deciding on the best of Leeds’ free transfers over the past 20 years, The Athletic settled on the man with the headband: Patrick Kisnorbo, who was a close-season signing after his release by Leicester City in 2009.

Defender Kisnorbo was vocal and straightforward, a head-in, foot-in Aussie. He needed 12 stitches in a head wound suffered on his debut and never let that image of him subside. The injury inspired the headband — a wrap of white bandage with a strip of flesh-coloured tape — which Kisnorbo wore for the rest of that season, despite some ribbing from other players. “There’s no way he needed it for that long,” says Michael Doyle, the midfielder who played with him in that 2009-10 League One promotion season, “but he’d got into the habit of wearing it. It’s one of the pictures I have in my head when I think of that year — him with it wrapped round his head. Paddy wouldn’t have been Paddy without the bandage.”

Doyle recast his eye over Kisnorbo in full flow just before Christmas when he sat and watched back the 2010 FA Cup win over Manchester United. A smiling Kisnorbo finished that match with blood smeared across his face (above). What Doyle saw in the footage was what he remembered. “Paddy was hard as ****,” he says. “I had him and Richard Naylor (another of Leeds’ better free transfers) behind me and they were both really smart, both willing to get right into the opposition. They’d been around the block and they were perfect together. No messing at all.” Kisnorbo liked to make himself heard constantly. Naylor, as one other former team-mate says, “preferred to keep his counsel until the time was right to really dish it out.” Together they dovetailed easily at centre-back.

Some nous was what Leeds had been short of under previous manager McAllister and what Simon Grayson was able to breed. That was the club’s third season in League One as an initial sabbatical in the nether reaches of the EFL threatened to become a permanent residency. Kisnorbo addressed a soft underbelly and in his 29 league appearances that year, Leeds conceded 24 goals. They lost only five league matches with him in the team and had laid the groundwork for promotion by Christmas. But for Kisnorbo, the campaign ended in late March. He ruptured an achilles tendon early in a home loss to Millwall and knew instantly that it would cost him the run-in and a place in the Australia squad for that summer’s World Cup finals. “I remember hugging him in the tunnel,” Grayson said several years later. “He was in tears and it was awful because you knew the consequences of it. The World Cup was never going to come round for him again.”

Kisnorbo paid for that injury with some of his pace and mobility and was never the same player afterwards. He appeared once, for just 11 minutes, in the following season and Leeds moved on, though not to bigger and better defenders in the short term. Kisnorbo struggled to be philosophical and later said that torn achilles was like going from “the top to way down the bottom” of the emotional scale. “It couldn’t have been a better year and then disaster strikes,” he reflected. Which from Leeds’ perspective was a change from disaster striking a free transfer from the outset. “We hit gold with Paddy,” Doyle says. “He was one of the stars of that season.”

Worth every penny Leeds didn’t pay.

In our poll, Kisnorbo swept the board as the best free transfer of the past 20 years with 59 per cent of the vote. The other options were strong candidates but amongst them, only Richard Naylor (10.4 per cent) had the distinction of finishing his career at Leeds with a promotion on his record.

It is a little surprising, given the fact that Kisnorbo and Naylor were such a pivotal defensive partnership in 2009-10, that Naylor did not take a larger share but Kisnorbo won the club’s player-of-the-year award at the end of that season and was, in most people’s eyes, a star of the show.

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[Doc]

I think if Noa Lang is happening then the only way it will happen is if Orta can offload Costa to Vilareall.

 

[Leedsoflondon]

… reports seem to suggest it’s on a free?

You’d kind of hope one of the stars of our 23s would command a fee

Guessing (hoping) we have a huge sell on fee negotiated

 

[Eric Le Merde]

Hindsight suggests we did OK with the Viera transfer although at the time I thought we had our pants pulled down.

Did we get any add-ons for Pontus getting Brentford up?

The money we lost on Lennon, Snodgrass, Beckford, Delph, Howson, Becchio and Co still baffles me to this day.

The best deal recently was selling Clark to Spuds. I wonder if there was a sell on clause in that deal?

 

[milkyboy]

The best deal recently was selling Clark to Spuds. I wonder if there was a sell on clause in that deal?

Do sell on clauses work in reverse… would we have to give a few million rebate when Spurs sell Clarke to Grimsby for a haddock and chips?

 

[Eric Le Merde]

Do sell on clauses work in reverse… would we have to give a few million rebate when Spurs sell Clarke to Grimsby for a haddock and chips?

I don't know but I suppose its basically 20% of the difference between what we sold them for and what they are subsequently sold for, so you could be right.

 

[Doc]

There is currently not a lot of money around in the EFL so as clubs ask to take kids from all Prem clubs for free, they end up signing big sell on clauses. When a kid like Huggins goes for free he will have as much as a 50% or even 60% sell on. Win win for both parties.