Weekend Debate

Doc

Doc

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Feb 1, 2011
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There are 10 clubs besides Leeds who not long ago were playing in the Championship. Of these there are 2 clubs that can now be deemed as too big to fail so now no chance of relegation. Newcastle were always the typical yo yo club under a variety of managers like Big Sam and Steve Bruce. The new owners own huge chunks of the world. Speaking of huge chunks Marinakis at Forest has bought safety for Forest and European football in quick time. For Forest to be involved in a relegation fight the European schedule would have damaged them but think Nuno has got fat boy to buy enough players to cope.

In theory the favourites for a relegation war should come from clubs who only recently played in the Championship, so Everton who we all hope are involved, are not included in the exercise.
  1. Brentford
  2. Brighton - consistently out punching and now really established.
  3. Burnley
  4. Bournemouth
  5. Fulham
  6. Newcastle - wealthy owners mean now safe
  7. Forest - rich owner has invested massively so for me safe
  8. Leeds Utd
  9. Sunderland
  10. West Ham Utd
  11. Wolves
The changes made to FFFP rules since we were last in the premier league have corrupted the system and the upgraded PSR policy has made it almost impossible for newly promoted teams to play on a level playing field. Obviously newly promoted teams are hamstrung by not being allowed to compete as they are only allowed to spend/lose 2 thirds of what the other 17 clubs can spend/lose. That makes no sense because newly promoted clubs actually need to spend more as they need to catch up and not have limits placed on them. In some respects Leeds Utd cannot go bust due to the wealth of our owners yet have a “restriction on trade” placed on them which is actually illegal under law, yet the premier league is a private members club and the shareholders are the clubs involved. Any rule change needs to be backed by 12 clubs, and that means no chance as it’s in the interests of the existing 17 clubs not to change. Cheating the system like Everton did to stay up or like Forest seems to be the only way.

Besides those clubs mentioned above, the other clubs who have been relegated a couple of times will fall into that list if promoted again.
  1. Southampton
  2. West Brom
  3. Sheffield Utd
  4. Middelsboro
  5. Norwich
  6. Swansea
  7. Hull City
  8. Birmingham
  9. Leicester
  10. Stoke
  11. Watford
  12. QPR
So just how hard is it to stay in the premier league when the system is rigged to see newly promoted teams fail.. on top of that you have to accept that all 17 clubs you go up to join are already way ahead of you in experience and quality. You have to accept that you need to spend a lot of money to upgrade almost every one of your players and try to bring in the quality to allow you to compete. However accepting that you are already way behind on quality and to have Liverpool spend £278.2m on new players compared to Leeds spending £73.8m (as of 19th August) so Liverpool already streets ahead of Leeds actually spend over £200m more than Leeds improving their team.

Club Spend 19th August 2025)

Liverpool £278.2m
Chelsea £240.1m
Man Utd £197.2m
Arsenal £192.6m
Forest £156.2m
Man City £153.4m
Sunderland £144.2m
Newcastle £130.3m
Spurs £127.9m
Burnley £107.8m
Bournemouth £91.8m
Brentford £90m
Wolves £78.7m
Everton £75.4m
Leeds Utd £73.8m
West Ham £71.2m
Brighton £69.7m
Aston Villa £31.7m
Palace £2m
Fulham £0.4m

Think you can see that of the 17 premier league we join 14 of them spent more on new players than we did. You can also see the clubs who are almost in breach of PSR rules and can also see that some of those have made massive profits on player sales. We are going to find it hard to compete. We need a special coach, special committed players and refs and VAR help.
 
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How about Fulham ? Always amaze me they are never favourites to implode. Remind me a bit of Brentford as of late. I guess just well run

Edit. Ive just seen you list them at the bottom. 2 bitters in, thats all it takes these days <cheers>
 
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Good thread Doc… it’s quite interesting to look at the PL clubs who have fairly recently been in the champ, and those champ sides who were in the PL not so long ago… it only takes a year or two before you forget about them. Though maybe that’s my age <laugh>.

I agree it gets harder to bridge the gap but the beauty of sport - even one where success is so linked to money - is there are always opportunities for the underdogs and failures for the ‘big’ guys.

I’m casting us as the underdog here, but in reality sides like us and Sunderland have resources and opportunities not available to many who want to try and gatecrash the party.
 
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milkyboy said:
Good thread Doc… it’s quite interesting to look at the PL clubs who have fairly recently been in the champ, and those champ sides who were in the PL not so long ago… it only takes a year or two before you forget about them. Though maybe that’s my age <laugh>.

I agree it gets harder to bridge the gap but the beauty of sport - even one where success is so linked to money - is there are always opportunities for the underdogs and failures for the ‘big’ guys.

I’m casting us as the underdog here, but in reality sides like us and Sunderland have resources and opportunities not available to many who want to try and gatecrash the party.
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Milky I’m afraid you have watched too many films mate. Runner falls over and gets up and catches everyone and then wins on the line. Great film that. Or was it the race horse that was 500 yards behind and came back to win. What about that great Newcastle film when they bought a useless Brazilian and he turned out to be a worldy and won the FA Cup. <laugh>
 
West Ham look dreadful. Chelsea look very powerful. Not looking forward to playing Chelsea.

The left back for West Ham is the guy who played against England when Senegal beat them. I was watching Diarra because we wanted him and were heavily linked but the left back Diouf was the highlight of Senegal. He's been decent again. Really like him.
 
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NostradEmus said:
West Ham look dreadful. Chelsea look very powerful. Not looking forward to playing Chelsea.
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Not sure if we need to be too worried, think we’ll learn more this weekend and in the coming weeks depending on how solid we are but also how bad West Ham are. West Ham have looked pretty poor two weeks running now so might be a them thing rather than Chelsea being overly good, admittedly I didn’t watch the game tonight but Chelsea looked like they couldn’t score in a brothel last weekend however Palace have looked good when I’ve seen them. We’ll have to see but early doors suggest West Ham as predicted are one of the teams that should/could be down there.
 
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Last season I was the underdog supporter in the Prem wanting anyone at the bottom to beat anyone at the top 6. now we back in the land of giants its all smash em up at the bottom.
shift of mentality from me today I was all its a free hit today. but, you know what that's defeat talk. makes me think we are already beat before we start.
so today its 11 Footballers v 11 Footballers they aren't invincible they haven't even won anything let's go have a go man v man.
 
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Am I missing something, fat Marinakis put all his Forest shares into limbo and those shares run by a few new members of the board on behalf of the club due to him not being allowed to interfere under multi club rules. Palace have been done due to the owner also owning Lyon. So how the hell can Maranakis recall board members for an emergency meeting about Nuno. He is one bent fat get who sees loopholes and drives a wagon and horse through them. Maybe the 49ers need to man up and do the same
 
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Borussia Dortmund have an an initial bid for Charlie Cresswell turned down by Toulouse but another bid expected today
 
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Doc said:
Am I missing something, fat Marinakis put all his Forest shares into limbo and those shares run by a few new members of the board on behalf of the club due to him not being allowed to interfere under multi club rules. Palace have been done due to the owner also owning Lyon. So how the hell can Maranakis recall board members for an emergency meeting about Nuno. He is one bent fat get who sees loopholes and drives a wagon and horse through them. Maybe the 49ers need to man up and do the same
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Nuno he's a gonna aint he. said they were fine last season him and the owner but this season they aren't getting on and Nuno now bringing it out to the media its just a matter of time. done a great job for them too.
 
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