I'll provide a slightly different view for you then WJ, with some caveats All values are taken from transfermarkt.com, so we may disagree with figures etc, but at least this is a viewable source Any players that have come from development or prior to Radz/Orta take over are not taken into account in these figures. Thus the sale of Jack Clarke to Spurs, is not included, neither is Vierra to Sampdoria. Kalvin Phillips value is not included, nor is the sale of Kemar Roofe. This is purely based on players who have joined us from other clubs, be they first team or U23/U18s whilst Orta/Radz has been here. Loan players have not been included, nor fees paid or received for any players, except for Augustin, given that this is a significant amount, that we may be required to pay, hence why its included. Sell on fees that we may have to pay or may receive are again not included If the difference in value or sale is within 5m of purchase price the, this is not counted as being notable. We have paid a total of £207,178,000 for 48 players (average cost of £4.3m) We have recouped £11,959,000 in sales of 23 players (average sale 0.5m) Value of players (total no 25) brought into the club that are still here £206,795,000 (average value 8.2m) So based on current value of players brought in by Orta, we have made £11,500,000 in total transfers. Notable Failures based on the above figures (below figures are just approximate of difference in value/or received to what we paid) Jean Kevin Augustin - £20m Costa - £11m James - £10m Rodrigo - £17m Total £58m Obviously the above could be worse, as Costa has a value of £4.5m, are we likely to receive that , probably not, so additional losses Notable Successes (again this is based on market value less cost of purchase, so cannot be classed as 100% fact) Bamford - £7m Meslier - £13m Raphinha - £24.5m Struijk - £13m Total £57m (NB Being realistic we have to presume that this is less than stated as there are bound to be sell on fees) Exceptions This is where it becomes subjective. Most on here will say that Roberts and Firpo are not successes. Firpo is currently valued £2.5m less than we paid, Roberts is valued £4.8m more than we paid. Caleb Ekuban was deemed a failure, but we received double what we paid for him. Was Saiz a success or a failure. He played 53 games in total for us, at a net loss of £1m in transfer fees. Is Forshaw a success or a failure. Nothing in his history suggested injury issues, he played 40+ games for us before his injuries restricted his number of games for us. Harrison has his doubters and yet in the two years he's had in the Premier League, his goal scoring record is equivalent to James Ward-Prowse. Casilla doesnt qualify as being a notable failure, based on us not paying a transfer fee for him, but in reality should be classed as one, given the wages we would have had to have paid him Spoiler: List of players included in the above figures These are all the players that I have classed as being brought in and either sold or still at the club under Orta/Radz. ( I may of course have missed one or two) Klich Wieldwall Sacko Anita Saiz Ekuban Alioski Buoy Grot Lonergan Peacock-Farrell Edmonson Ideguchi Oriol Rey De Bock Forshaw Stevens Sarkic Roberts Douglas Harrison Bamford Casilla Costa Meslier Gelhardt Rodrigo Koch Llorente Raphinha Miller Firpo Klaesson James Dalby Gomes Cibicki Jansson Davis Bogusz McCarron Augustin Poveda Greenwood Summerville Drameh Struijk Hjelde Halme
Orta came in with radz, WJ. Cellino had decimated the u23s so orta went on the rampage. The success rate or lack of was kind of understandable. He also bought a lot of European first team squad members with a pretty poor success rate. My beef with orta was that I felt the strategy was wrong for us at that particular time. Unusually I was right on this occasion as the fire sale the following year kind of proved. Now we’re, sort of, established in the Prem I’m fine with his current approach. Only time will tell if we’ve picked the right players in the 10-30m bracket we’re shopping in. Devil in the detail and all that.
I'll have a go Eire. BB (before Bielsa) Kalvin's value was below the £10M mark and I'd say roughly somewhere around the £5M we got for Ronaldo Vieira. After one season KP's stock had risen signifiantly even though there were a few bumps (and early substitutions) along the way. Following that first Bielsa season KP was pursued by Villa and a transfer very nearly happened in the £25M region, fortunately Kalvin stayed and we not only won promotion but have now managed 2 seasons in the PL. Now after 12 years at the club the time has come for a parting of the ways and as the club will be handsomely rewarded we should all wish Kalvin well for the rest of his career and beyond. Conclusion being we've come a long way over the last 4 seasons and we now have to use the Phillips money to help rebuild a squad which needs refreshing and hopefully this refresh will keep us away from the relegation trap door for the next couple of seasons before the process starts again. If none of the above had happened then Kalvin would likely still be a £5M (or less) player or he'd have already left for significantly less than the fee we've now trousered from Man City. Lot's to be positive about and also significant progress as we continue try to and swim with the big fishes.
Some truth in the above Jammy, except that as a 22 year old who was rated by every manager we had (if not the fans) you have to believe he was going to improve anyway. Bielsa recognised his talents, knew that his attributes fitted his system perfectly, got him super-fit and undoubtedly improved him as a footballer. what he would be without bielsa? Who can say. What happened in the past is history. Right now, today, he’s worth more than city paid for him.. as proven by other clubs apparently being prepared to pay more. That’s where the beef is.
As always Milky you managed to say in a couple of lines, what I meant to say in a post that took 15 minutes to compose and is full of numbers that bore people to death
Only those who've agreed the financial aspects of the deal can be aware of exactly what's involved and as most posters on here were asking for clarity we perhaps should be pleased that the deal's been concluded quickly so we can now move on and get further business done. Chances are someone close to Radz will be having a nice trip to Abu Dhabi soon to collect the brown paper bag and I'm not going to begrudge the fella that given he was the only one willng to put both his cash and balls on the line to get us out the slumber we seemed eternally locked into.
too kind sir, and I for one enjoy the detail you provide to back up your points… rather than the sweeping judgements many of the rest of us conjure up
So with the last two seasons in the championship and our two back in the premier league, we are approaching the fifth season where we have been calling for a striker, yet still nothing. We need goals and options up front, either as a two with paddy or as a starter.
Lets assume Kalvin would have been pretty good then, but was never as good as Mowett and wheres he now. Lots of Kalvins mates went out on loan to Fleetwood Town, Mowett went to Oxford Barnsley, Lewis Cooke was the best of the bunch, so lets not imagine Phillips was going to grow into an England International on his own….
Not sure of your angle on this Okay. But do you think Bamford would have an England cap without the Bielsa input despite being picked under a previous manager? Personally, I think that’s the better gage.
Slight alteration is we made great progress over three seasons Jammy but went back in last season. We must make substantial progress as we simply can’t afford any more backward steps. Hopefully there’s a few new faces to come yet and they can all help quickly
Jean Kevin Augustin - Costa - James - Rodrigo - Firpo - £90m wasted. I think you'll find that the above were all Bielsa's signings
All put forward by Orta btw. Not just Bielsa. Costa was a success in my book so.... please log in to view this image
Possibly they were Ell, so are you hinting that Orta signed all the good players ,but Bielsa only approved our bad signings or are you suggesting something else ?
