Wayne Rooney

[yarco canary]

Is it just me??

Am I the only one who who couldn't
give a f*** when Rooney breaks
Charltons goal scoring record.

As a proud English man and supporter
of all our teams and sportsman I cannot
raise any enthusiasm for this guy.
Why is this ?

 

[K E M P]

With you on that one.

Never really done it when it matters.

 

[JKCanary]

With you on that one.

Never really done it when it matters.

It's interesting that you say that. In terms of goal scoring, the only striker ever to 'do it' at more than one major tournament was Lineker. Charlton only ever 'did it' (in goal scoring terms) at one tournament, same as Rooney (so far).

 

[K E M P]

Yes, maybe it's just my perception.

In my opinion he is massively over-rated. When you see these adverts with him in Ronaldo and Messi's company it totally bemuses me. He has never been and will never be anywhere near them in terms of talent and ability.

Rooney is indicative of the state of English football and the worst thing of it all is we have no striker coming through that is even anywhere near as good as him. On his day he is very good player but when compared to the worlds best he is nowhere near.

 

[KIO]

I think what most people forget is that EVERY England game in Charlton's era was competitive whether it was tournament football or not. Most but not all of Rooney's goals have been against pretty poor opposition, not to mention a shed load of penalties. Thus even if Rooney scores another 20-25 goals for England, Charlton's haul of 49 will remain IMO a greater feat

 

[JKCanary]

I think what most people forget is that EVERY England game in Charlton's era was competitive whether it was tournament football or not. Most but not all of Rooney's goals have been against pretty poor opposition, not to mention a shed load of penalties. Thus even if Rooney scores another 20-25 goals for England, Charlton's haul of 49 will remain IMO a greater feat

When you say "competitive", what do you mean? England played friendlies back then.
Around 20 (IIRC) of Sir Bobby's goals were scored in friendlies.

 

[KIO]

When you say "competitive", what do you mean? England played friendlies back then.
Around 20 (IIRC) of Sir Bobby's goals were scored in friendlies.

I was trying to put the point across that international friendlies were competitively contested back then, there was no such thing as a 'friendly' if you get my meaning. Put it this way, there were no 'international breaks' and Bobby would play 90 minutes for Man Utd on the Saturday, go away on international duty midweek and then play another full game the following Saturday. Not only that, NO player would ever dream of trying to pull out of an England 'friendly' fixture and would even turn up if not fully fit hoping to play. Also, his parent club would never consider asking the national team manager not to select him or to just play him for 45 minutes or so. Like I say, a completely different era and outlook.

Edit:- ..... and don't forget although Bobby Charlton wore No.9 for England on many ocassions, he was actually a midfield player !

 

[JKCanary]

I was trying to put the point across that international friendlies were competitively contested back then, there was no such thing as a 'friendly' if you get my meaning.

Ah, I see.

I dunno, there's so many different factors to take into account when it comes to comparing the two players. Very difficult (for me anyway) to say who was 'better', or 'a better goalscorer'.

It's hard to argue against the fact that Charlton was more successful though obviously, due to the fact he actually won something!

 

[General Melchett]

I agree to an extent with most here. Rooney is a good player in an era of extreme mediocrity in England. He appears a very capable flat track bully, scoring plenty against the minnows but when needed to excel in tournament finals he has been found wanting.
Of course you can't blame only him. The teams we have sent to each of the last 4-5 euro/WC have been; poorly managed, poorly motivated (Judging by performances), under skilled and knackered to boot.
Messi would likely struggle if transplanted into the England team in his place, in fact the great Messi has hardly pulled up tree's for Argentina given his incredible talent.
So whilst I lost any passion for the national side some years ago, I think it is a little unfair to deride Rooney to much. He has scored his goals in a pretty ordinary national side and there is the old adage that "there are no easy games any more". Whilst that is nonsense when you see part timers like San Marino out there, most teams are better organized than ever before and just playing faster, stronger and more direct does not cut it any more.

I don't think Rooney has been as good as: Shearer, the crisp salesman or a number of others for England, but that may be as much about the teams they had around them as their abilities, because I'm not sure I could say GL was a better player than Rooney.

And sorry KIO but Charlton's goals were not all against top opposition he scored 4 in two games against the USA which we won 18-1 over 180 minutes, the hatrick in the 9-0 mauling of Luxemberg. There are plenty of other instances of goals in thrashings, see wiki

The more you look at that list the less impressive it gets, not many in finals, most in the home championship. So lets cut Rooney a bit of slack, to have been good enough to lead the line for long enough to get all those goals is an achievement in itself and when people quote the record they don't list the opposition or assess how rubbish the team is around the players.

Don't get me wrong, I really don't like the Granny humping f#cktard, but he ain't done bad!

Bah!

 

[danary]

When Rooney first burst onto the scene he looked like he had so much potential and although he has undoubtedly had a good career he has never really hit the levels that he looked like was capable of.

I don't know why this is. It could be playing too much as a youngster and burning out (he is fairly injury prone and he is definitely not as quick as he once was).

On the other hand, I think his first touch has got progressively worse in recent years which I wouldn't think would he caused by a burn out (although I'm not expert - this is merely speculative). For me, that's more indicative of an attitude thing - perhaps complacency.

 

[Tony_Munky_Canary]

Rooney has won five league titles (in ten seasons) to Charlton's three (across 17 seasons), same number of European Cups though Charlton obviously has the big one on his CV which clearly skews the argument in lots of people's minds.

Rooney has scored 170 goals in 344 games for United (goal every two games) compared to 199 in 606 by Charlton (goal every three games).

Ok, Charlton was predominantly a midfielder (a position Rooney has been asked to place himself on many occasions) but it's a nonsense to dismiss Rooney as being out of Charlton's league based on the stats - almost as big a nonsense as trying to argue that all Chalrton's international goals were in competitive games and that there were no easy matches back then . Don't forget the World Cup England won back then was on home soil as well, which was a massive advantage.

I can't stand these comparisons, also can't stand the way some folk love to shoot down our best players/sportsmen in general and not give them the credit they deserve. Rooney is a bloody good footballer, certainly one of the best English players of my time and so what if he's not at the same level of Messi or Ronaldo? These guys are two of the very best footballers ever to walk the planet, it's a completely pointless comparison and one that can only ever be used to belittle the achievements of someone like Rooney. The day he starts comparing himself to those players then it's fair game (something I don't imagine him ever doing), but until then I just don't get it.

Rooney has had a career most players could only dream of, and with so much of it left he will go on to set records that may never be broken in my lifetime, and who knows what silverware he may end up with. He is the best we have and just because he isn't on a par with the very best players in the world I don't see how that is his fault or how on earth he can be criticised for it? It's like the people (and there are a lot of them) who used to call Tim Henman crap because he never won a grand slam event and could only reach a high point of being ranked the fourth best player on the planet.

Why some people enjoy knocking others down I don't know, each to their own I guess

 

[Dangerous Marsupial]

He's nowhere near being the best player in the world but he is still England's best player and playing for England certainly means a lot to him, so good on him! I never understood why he gets so much hate when at least he very clearly cares about playing for his country.

 

[goldeneadie]

Totally agree with everything you say TMC. We have a habit of knocking our top sportsmen, started by the red top rags. They build them up, then when they have become successful go to extraordinary lengths to destroy their credibility.

 

[Tony_Munky_Canary]

Just find it a bit sad to be honest.

Anyone else note the irony in the OP claiming to "not give a f***" about when Rooney breaks the record - but who then goes on to create a thread about it anyway?

And how "proud" a supporter of a team do you have to be to not be able to raise any enthusiasm for it's captain and best player?

 

[canary-dave]

What I don't understand is why there is no mention of the third holder of 49 goals for England? They just bang on about Charlton or Rooney with never a mention of "own goal!"

 

[KIO]

What I don't understand is why there is no mention of the third holder of 49 goals for England? They just bang on about Charlton or Rooney with never a mention of "own goal!"

Now that would be funny if the Swiss score an opening own goal and 'Own Goal' becomes the first scorer of 50 goals for England !

 

[JKCanary]

Now that would be funny if the Swiss score an opening own goal and 'Own Goal' becomes the first scorer of 50 goals for England !

Own Goal's mins-per-goal ratio is awful.

 

[Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed]

Rooney has won five league titles (in ten seasons) to Charlton's three (across 17 seasons), same number of European Cups though Charlton obviously has the big one on his CV which clearly skews the argument in lots of people's minds.

Rooney has scored 170 goals in 344 games for United (goal every two games) compared to 199 in 606 by Charlton (goal every three games).

Ok, Charlton was predominantly a midfielder (a position Rooney has been asked to place himself on many occasions) but it's a nonsense to dismiss Rooney as being out of Charlton's league based on the stats - almost as big a nonsense as trying to argue that all Chalrton's international goals were in competitive games and that there were no easy matches back then . Don't forget the World Cup England won back then was on home soil as well, which was a massive advantage.

I can't stand these comparisons, also can't stand the way some folk love to shoot down our best players/sportsmen in general and not give them the credit they deserve. Rooney is a bloody good footballer, certainly one of the best English players of my time and so what if he's not at the same level of Messi or Ronaldo? These guys are two of the very best footballers ever to walk the planet, it's a completely pointless comparison and one that can only ever be used to belittle the achievements of someone like Rooney. The day he starts comparing himself to those players then it's fair game (something I don't imagine him ever doing), but until then I just don't get it.

Rooney has had a career most players could only dream of, and with so much of it left he will go on to set records that may never be broken in my lifetime, and who knows what silverware he may end up with. He is the best we have and just because he isn't on a par with the very best players in the world I don't see how that is his fault or how on earth he can be criticised for it? It's like the people (and there are a lot of them) who used to call Tim Henman crap because he never won a grand slam event and could only reach a high point of being ranked the fourth best player on the planet.

Why some people enjoy knocking others down I don't know, each to their own I guess

Absolutely spot on.

 

[Superman wears Grant Holt pyjamas in bed]

It's not just Rooney - the whole England 'moaning' thing really does my head in too. If you're English you should support England. It doesn't matter if they are boring or just downright crap - you'd still support Norwich under the same circumstances. I've been bored off my tits watching them over the years but I still want them to win. I reckon anyone who gives up on England during these times should forfeit their right to watch England IF they ever become really good

 

[Norfolkbhoy]

I think the perception of Rooney is coloured by his off-field behaviour. He basically held Man U to ransom to get his pay increased and then there is all the granny-shagging allegations etc etc. Comparing him to someone like Bobby Charlton who has a pretty unblemished track record of loyalty and decent behaviour as well as being a Munich survivor Rooney is always going to look a bit shabby. That is not to say that had they been around at the same time Charlton may have thrown his weight around contractually or any misdemeanours would be found out and spread across the red-tops. I think it is very difficult to compare present day footballers with their predecessors as in the 60's and 70's players were much more like the man in the street and were perceived as hard working loyal servants who represented their local communities. Today football is all about entertainment and the players are just performers - where they play is generally of no consequence to them and they use their time to earn as much as they possibly can.

You also have a situation modern footballers are millionaires before they are out of their teens and young men having access to that level of money are highly likely to get in some sort of trouble. I am not condoning it but I am convinced that great wealth does give players an out of proportion sense of their own worth - look at Toure for example earning £200k/week and getting upset because the club owners did not send him a nice birthday cake.

Rooney has done very well to last as long as he has and to get level with Sir Bobby but you can't compare their achievements as there are of completely different eras.