Basically the club cannot decide what sort of manager they want it seems . We go from one sort to another every time . They probably should have gone for a Bilic type of manager if the board wanted an instant impact rather than a young manager with a years worth of management experience. What will help the manager us if all our better players are fit /in form and in a formation they like .
Quite- obviously has nothing to do with us anymore after the club stopped giving him information and talked to Andrew French at the Watford Observer instead. I have noticed more anger and frustration than usual this time . Compared to the Munoz sacking where people were quite happy to accept he had to go . Is it because Edwards was young and British people had a connection with him more ?
Sure, but I don’t understand it. There’s some fair responses on the Wobby from a number that reflect my views on Edwards. And OK, the defensive signings haven’t been enough, but we’ve had some big defensive names move on since relegation, and people who go on about Gino’s inability to sign quality, forget Sarr, Asprilla, Pedro and Sema, as well as many other top drawer players we’ve had in the recent past. And I think it’s harder to sign attacking quality like that than it is to sign good defenders. For me, it wasn’t working, the performance was not up to scratch, and inaction could have been devastating. All the press screaming for Southgate’s head because he insists on three at the back, but then it’s “silly old Watford have sacked another manager” without any sense of what has been going on here. I don’t want people like Ken Sema et al wanting out in January because we showed loyalty to the wrong guy.
Good pay day in a few months! I suspect we'll hear some players weren't happy or something as well - that usually crops up.
Do we pay people off in full? It does seem money for old rope if a manager failing to fulfil the necessary, gets paid off as if he was still there? What other jobs’ employers would accept that? I’ve always hoped that we have ‘failure’ clauses in our contracts. e.g. if after 10 games we are below 8th…
I think that's why they have contracts - they offer protection from being shown the door without recompense. We'd be changing coaches weekly. Am pretty sure they can be either paid out in full or payment can continue as 'gardening leave' - the latter seems pretty common for players - think Danny Rose. I honestly can't see that failure clauses such as your example exist - imagine signing a contract with that and then finding your first ten fixtures are against Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Man U, Spuds etc. You'd quit straight away.
I am sure that some of the contracts must be quite complex. It has crossed my mind that European players might well want to have their money paid into accounts in their own country. This brings about what currency they are actually paid in. Any self-respecting agent would require it to be a fixed sum, not something subject to fluctuation.
That would prove to be a minefield when it comes to tax. Foreign nationals working in the UK have to pay tax in both countries - but can claim credits in their home countries equal to the amounts paid in the UK. Fluctuating sterling would surely have some effect on that.
Have you read Levethal's article in the Athletic, Markthehorn? I realize that Leventhal has been ostracized by the club (probably by Duxbury) and that information is now fed to Andrew French, but his article gives the impression that he is better informed than Andrew French about what has happened in this instance. For example, I was surprised to read that Bilic was first approached last season to replace Hodgson, but did not want to take over a team struggling to avoid relegation. Andrew French estimates that between 98% and 99% of the comments (which he has read on social media) are critical of the decision. I think that the reason the great majority of supporters are upset about Edwards' dismissal is due to the statements which were made by Scott Duxbury at the beginning of the season. He said that the club wanted to change its culture so Rob Edwards would be fully supported (which he was not in the transfer window) and given time (which he was not). It is possible that it was Duxbury who persuaded Gino Pozzo to appoint a young and upcoming British coach such as Edwards. On the other hand, some supporters are annoyed because they think that Edwards was the wrong appointment in the first place. It is noticeable that it was Pozzo who announced Edwards' dismissal and that Duxbury has remained silent (which suggests that the board may be divided on this issue). Supporters also appear to be unhappy that Giaretta has been reinstated (after being removed as Director of Football last week). 17 head coaches in 10 years (and that number excludes the dismissal of Dyche) does not seem to be a sensible way to run the club and suggests that there have been too many poor managerial appointments. I do care about the image of the club and I do not believe that GT would have been happy about what has happened. I would be interested to know how SEJ has reacted to the dismissal of Edwards.
Annoyingly, that figure has been bandied around by pundits/reporters and those on social media, with the clear implication that Watford sack at the drop of a hat. Whilst the number sackings is nothing to be proud of, I often wonder if any of them realise that some of those departures were resignations rather than sackings. Off the top of my head, Zola, Sannino, Jokanovic, and QSF all chose to walk away, Oscar resigned due to ill health, McKinlay was only ever caretaker - and Silva deserved to be sacked anyway. For me, everything points to Gino and his management team simply being too hard to work for. They have certainly made some very poor appointments, but not all of them are in that category.
I attended my first Watford game, as a young boy, with my father in 1963 and I have followed the team through the good and the bad periods since that time. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I have agreed with many of your comments in the past, andytopankin, but I do disagree with some of your comments about this issue. I doubt that many people have criticized Gino Pozzo's ability to sign quality players (such as Sarr, Asprilla and Pedro), although I would regard Sema as no more than a good player at Championship level. The criticism is his failure to to strengthen the team in key areas and ignoring - in particular - the defence. For example, players such as Kabasele and Cathcart are no longer the players that they once were. His main interest appears to be in player trading rather than building a balanced squad. I know that Rob Edwards has had a difficult (although not disastrous) start and he admits that he has made some errors, but he is still learning as a coach. He was not fully backed in the transfer window (in particular, the failure to sign a right wing back who is essential to the system which Edwards prefers) and he has been hampered by injuries and fitness issues with key players. Players have been signed whom Edwards clearly did not want (such as Gaspar). Villarreal were happy to end Gaspar’s contract one year early and send him to Watford as part of the deal for them to sign Femenia for 1 million Euros. It also appears that Edwards has not been allowed to organize training as he wanted since the squad returned from Austria. Giaretta has apparently been interfering with the training and the schedules, deciding whether the players could leave the over-night hotel and dictating the players’ diet. Edwards was not allowed to run the training sessions as he wanted and this resulted in him and four players going to complain to the leadership. Giaretta was initially removed, but he has now been reinstated and Edwards sacked. I dislike the way that Giaretta speaks mostly to the Italian media and how he has treated Watford supporters with disdain when he lied about the reasons that Cucho Hernandez was sold. He said that Rob Edwards could not guarantee a regular place to Hernandez in the team (which a club insider claims annoyed Edwards) and referred to the ‘rule of 11’ (but then Watford signed 2 more foreign players to replace Hernandez). We shall probably never know the full truth because all the club employees have to sign legally binding non-disclosure agreements. Admittedly, Edwards enjoyed a preseason, but it is worth remembering that Alex Ferguson had a shaky start at Manchester Utd. There were also some poor displays and the team gained only 15 points in his first 10 league games. I wonder whether Gino Pozzo would have sacked Ferguson if he had been in charge of Manchester Utd., but Ferguson eventually became one of the greatest Premier League managers. Arteta at Arsenal and and Frank at Brentford had difficult starts, but their clubs stood by them. Andrew French notes that Edwards "actually made a better start over his first 10 games than either Zola or Jokanovic". I know that the team performances have been disappointing, but constantly changing managers is a knee-jerk reaction and is short termism because coaches need a longer time to introduce their ideas. I do worry whether Gino Pozzo has taken such drastic action because the club's financial situation is much worse than has been admitted and promotion is a necessity. Edwards seem to have been popular with the players so I am wondering how they will react to his dismissal (especially the four who went with him to complain about Giaretta's interference) and whether their reaction may affect their performances. Bilic will be coming into a difficult situation and I am not certain whether he will even fulfill the criteria for a work permit. However, as Andrew French writes in his most recent article: "The problem here is culture and credibility. It is impossible to so publicly admit – as happened in the summer - the need for change, talk so strongly about wanting to create a better culture and admit the way of working of the past had run its course if you then perform a huge hand-brake turn after 10 league games and expect people to just roll with it."
I sit firmly in the middle of Luther and Andy on this I hoped Edwards would be a long term success but it has not worked out Edwards himself had stated that the club were NO LONGER pursuing a Right Back/Wing Back because he was happy with the players at his disposal We have had many discussions on here about why 3 - 5 - 2 could not work with the players at the club, Sarr for example is wasted in a front two he can only fit into 4 - 4 - 2 or 4 - 3- 3 Pedro cannot play a a lone striker but he could pair up with Davis with Sarr or Asprilla causing havoc along side them My main criticism about our owner has been their reluctance or inability to sign a couple of young strong Centre Backs who could replace Cathcart and Kabs, the youngsters they have signed have not made an impact with us and are out of favour and or loaned out or moved on There have been a couple of Prem seasons where we have outscored the a teams in the bottom part of the top ten in the Prem but have conceded more goals than any other team, this has been the major problem and will continue to be so that the Defence is sorted otherwise we have managers like Edwards having tp set up to prevent goals rather than score them
Fair comments, both. I think the Alex Ferguson comparison is very complimentary to RE, and a bit out of date. I'm guessing I've had about ten years less than you at Vicarage Road, but it's nearing fifty years. The days of having a manager for a decade or so, are probably gone. If you look at the Premiership only Klopp and Guardiola have served more than five years, in the Championship only Robins at Cov, no one in the Scottish Prem, and only three in the bottom 48 - the majority of all managers signed in 2021 or 2022. Should RE have had more time? In an ideal world, yes; but Watford, I agree, are probably in a parlous financial position, as are many other clubs, and time is not on our side. We have no duty, IMHO, to raise apprentice managers - RE was taken as a punt, not for us to foster at any costs. What has gone on behind closed doors, I don't know. I don't have my little pair of eyes and ears there any more, and if there is interference in training that is worrying I agree. My main concern was that RE didn't seem to notice that when he set the players out more conventionally, we played better - colossally better. But then next game we would revert... and concede... and then chase the game... again and again. IMHO, if he didn't have the players to play the way he wanted, he should have set up according to what he had, not blindly following his idea of how top class football should be played. I wish him very well, and I hope he learns and cements his trade somewhere, but I don't think we had the time to help him grow. I think we had more time under Zola and Jokanović. Whether Bilić is the right fit or not, I don't know. But I hope his experienced observations of what the problems are, and a paternal arm around certain shoulders will tell.
It was just an example. If you were to take Manchester City to relegation, then you'd expect the sack. But should you expect a full payoff? Maybe it could be graduated according to the risk.
Totally agree with this. I can't stand the lazy 'journalism' that goes on from supposedly informed professionals. I agree about Gino perhaps being hard to work for, but Duxbury himself has said that the club is structured to deal with manager change, unlike how most other clubs are. Which makes sense given that it hasn't really sent us spiralling as most pundits would suggest is the 'inevitable' result. We have built a strong club with this style of leadership.
Twenty minutes in and we've yet to concede - miracles do happen. 0-0 please log in to view this image
