You literally said you do the same thing a few days ago. Just thought i'd jump in and say that because I thought it dumb when you said it.
Can you give the specific example of this, because without the context I'm not sure it's really a comparison. But I would say, that 'news' is pretty partisan, especially social media 'news'. And a lot of it openly partisan. A tweet from a social media news account is not really in the same ball park as a UN Human rights council investigation, if that's what you're referring to ?
I get ya, cant remember the exact quote but it was something like "When I read news, I look at who is saying it.....". But in any case, I get ya
Navi Pillay is chairing the Commission of Inquiry on Occupied Palestine. She and her team are the main gatekeepers of information and opinion currently leaving Gaza. Most if not all other 'reports' you see will have gone through her commission and have been 'verified' by her team. It is absolutely not a cop out to question the findings of a person who is notorious for her anti-Israel bias. The US Congress and the EU did exactly the same when she was appointed, so I am hardly alone in my concern, unless they're also 'copping out'? I'm not comparing Palestinians to some bloke living comfortably in Cornwall. They are 'privileged' compared to every single other refugee group on planet Earth. They have their own special UN body that for some reason is allowed to operate with complete autonomy from the UN High Commission. This body has close to ten times as many staff members per capita than the staff servicing the rest of the world's refugees combined. You've once again mentioned Eritrea. They have a dire ongoing refugee crisis. Why don't they have their own UN body tasked with helping Eritrean refugees, to the exclusion of all others? That is the dictionary definition of privilege. The complete autonomy enjoyed by UNWRA, which never needed to exist in the first place, is a direct causative of the fact that 9 members of staff are terrorists. The number is likely to be higher than that. It is also a direct cause of UNWRA schools teaching a curriculum that is filled with vitriol, incitement to jihad and anti-Israel polemic to the youngsters in its educational care. You've dismissed these numbers out of hand, but they are significant when we consider that not a single staff member of the UNHC on Refugees has been found to be on the payroll of a terrorist group, nor has a single UNHC funded school been found to teach bile and hatred. UNWRA never needed to exist, it has no reason to continue to exist, and its continued existence is a stain on the High Commission's otherwise impressive work.
@PISKIE us turning to Navi Pillay for solid fact about Gaza is the equivalent of me asking Ray Parlour what he thinks about Spurs. It's that simple. Does this mean Parlour cannot possibly be right? Of course it doesn't. Does it mean I'd probably take Parlour's opinion on the matter with a pinch of salt? Yes.
Yeah, I remember the convo now. It was about news from social media on the back of Sucky posting loads of tweets from accounts that had a racist agenda, but were just 'reporting'. I think @brb pointed it out, that it's all that they will 'report'. So you'll see a load of tweets about black crime, but none about crime from a wider perspective. Unfortunately, if people only use these sources as their news, then that's what's going to inform their world view, when it's just a narrow perspective. The issue I have with CK's position, is that he's quick to condemn certain parts of the UN, whilst saying he has huge respect for other parts of it. It's not a coincidence, that the parts of the UN he finds fault with, are those that are highlighting Israel's atrocities .
Neither does Pinkie, unfortunately. That's the root of the problem. He (forgiveably) doesn't have a strong enough grasp of the UN's inner workings and the complex interplay between its various bodies and the people in charge of them. I lived nothing else for a year when on placement in NYC.
It really isn't though. The deliberate attack on Palestinian doctors and medical staff has also been highlighted by Amnesty International, Medicine San Frontier, MAP, the UN, Various aid groups on the ground, the doctors and medical staff themselves. You can't keep using the excuse that one person who you question, calls into validity the whole issue.
There you go again with the condescending patronising nonsense. This is what you do, try to attack and belittle individuals instead of admitting what is actually happening, and being reported by various organisations on the ground.
Amnesty International has no staff members on the ground in Gaza. They do have one 'fieldworker' but it is almost impossible to find out who he/she is and where they are based. Their opinion on this is therefore almost certainly what you would call 'hearsay' in a court of law. MSF has around 600 staff members spread across the region. Most are Palestinian and tend to be affiliated with or employed by other medical providers too. To the best of my knowledge, MSF has condemned Israel for targeting hospitals and medical centres in attacks, but has stopped short of accusing them of deliberately seeking out medical personnel to either kill or torture (accusations which appear in your posts like clockwork). Of course, the attack on the MSF convoy back in December is one exception to this, but this attack solicited an apology from Israel and is now under formal investigation. I take their opinion seriously. 'Various Aid groups on the ground' needs to be quantified. Who are they? Who are they affiliated to? Are their accounts firsthand knowledge or hearsay? These are very grave and serious accusations and I'd hope you would agree that due process needs to be followed if we are to ascertain the truth. Which is why I say that the main voices in this whole mess belong to Navi Pillay and her Commission, or various journos or unverified 'aid groups' who are reporting hearsay as fact, rarely considering that there is a world of difference between medical workers dying from collateral damage and dying by being deliberately hunted down and shot in cold blood. Neither is good and both have the same pitiful conclusion, but one is war while the other is a war crime.
By the way, if you want to make the argument that Israel should reopen Gaza to international journalists and a wider range of NGOs, I'd fully support that.
There's a catalogue of incidents highlighted by MSF We demand accountability for our colleagues and their family members who have been killed and wounded, and for patients. Share this Timeline of attacks 7 October – immediately following Hamas’ attacks, Israeli forces struck Indonesian hospital in Beit Lahia and an ambulance in front of Nasser hospital in Khan Younis, killing a nurse and an ambulance driver and injuring several others. 10 October – an Israeli airstrike damaged MSF’s Gaza clinic in Gaza City; no staff or patients were injured. 11 October – an airstrike hit close to Al-Awda hospital in Jabalia, where MSF has been operating since 2018; some ceilings caved in as a result of the blast, but the structural integrity of the hospital was maintained, and it continued to function. 13 October – Israeli forces gave two hours’ notice to evacuate MSF-supported Al-Awda hospital. Our medical colleagues wheeled patients on gurneys into the street in an effort to get them to other hospitals, with little success. MSF condemned the evacuation order and highlighted the need to protect medical workers and patients. Eventually staff and patients remained in the hospital. 17 October – in Gaza City, a strike hit the parking lot of Al-Ahli Arab hospital, where an MSF doctor was operating, reportedly killing hundreds of people. In the days leading up to the incident, the hospital director had received warnings from Israel. MSF condemned this strike and initially attributed responsibility to Israel. However, even today it remains uncertain who bears responsibility for this act. An independent investigation is the only way to determine the responsibility for this attack. 30 October - a projectile hit the MSF-supported Turkish-Palestinian Friendship hospital south of Gaza City, causing damage to the building. The hospital stopped functioning when it ran out of fuel on 1 November. 3 November - an Israeli airstrike outside Al-Shifa hospital in Gaza City hit and destroyed an ambulance convoy, which also killed many people. MSF unequivocally condemned this attack. 15 November – Israeli ground troops stormed Al-Shifa hospital. All remaining MSF staff had left the hospital about one week earlier. please log in to view this image An MSF car folded in two, following its deliberate destruction by Israeli forces. Gaza, Palestine, 24 November 2023. MSFan MSF convoy seeking to evacuate staff and their families was fired upon, killing two people including an MSF colleague. All elements point to the responsibility of the Israeli army for this attack. Two days later, an Israeli bulldozer and heavy military vehicles destroyed the MSF cars from the convoy in full view of our colleagues sheltering in the MSF guesthouse in Gaza City. The vehicles also damaged the MSF clinic by ramming its perimeter wall, which collapsed. Part of the clinic caught fire as a result. 21 November - a strike on Al-Awda hospital killed Dr Mahmoud Abu Nujaila and Dr Ahmad Al-Sahar from MSF, and another doctor, Dr Ziad Al-Tatari. While we have spoken to all parties to the conflict, seeking accountability for these killings, none has been forthcoming, and it is not possible to say what happened with absolute certainty. An independent assessment should be conducted onsite to determine responsibility for this. 24 November - as the only vehicles available to the staff and their family members sheltering in the MSF guesthouse and clinic in Gaza City had been destroyed, our teams based in the south of the Gaza Strip sent more vehicles to Gaza City to attempt another evacuation. However, they were also hit by bullets while approaching the MSF clinic and the movement was cancelled. Later, they too were destroyed by the Israeli forces in the early hours of 24 November. 1 December - a temporary truce between Israel and Hamas in the Gaza Strip took effect from 24 November 2023 to 30 November 2023. Hours after the truce ended, a blast damaged Al-Awda hospital. 5 December - MSF staff in Al-Awda reported that the hospital was facing a total siege. In the following days, two members of medical staff at the hospital (not MSF staff) were reportedly shot and killed by snipers outside. 12 December - an MSF surgeon was injured inside Al-Awda hospital by a shot fired from the outside. 14 December - in Khalil Suleiman hospital, Jenin (West Bank), our colleagues supporting the hospital witnessed Israeli forces shoot and kill a teenage boy in the hospital compound, following the abuse of paramedics who were forced to strip and kneel in the street. please log in to view this image Four MSF vehicles parked in front of our clinic in Gaza are destroyed by the intervention of the Israeli forces. Palestine, 20 November 2023. MSFMSF had to evacuate Al-Aqsa hospital in Deir al-Balah as fighting between Israeli forces and Palestinian armed groups approached. Israeli evacuation orders also put MSF’s hospital pharmacy inside the exclusion zone, making it inaccessible. A sniper bullet was fired through the intensive care unit wall on 5 January. 8 January – an Israeli tank shell struck the MSF “Lotus” shelter in Khan Younis, killing the five-year-old daughter of an MSF member of staff and wounding three people. Over 125 MSF staff and their families were then relocated to Rafah. 22 January - Nasser hospital in Khan Younis was surrounded by fighting, bombing, and subjected to evacuation orders. Airstrikes killed people as close as 150 metres from the hospital’s entrance, according to MSF staff present. 15 February - a shell struck the orthopaedic department at Nasser hospital; staff members fled the compound leaving behind several patients. One member of MSF staff was detained at a checkpoint by Israeli forces and has since been released. 20 February - an Israeli tank fired at an MSF shelter in Al-Mawasi, Khan Younis, killing the daughter-in-law and wife of one of our colleagues, and injuring seven people. 2 March - a shell struck a shed next to the main entrance of the MSF-supported Al-Emirati hospital in Rafah, killing two people and injuring several more. Since 7 October in Gaza 24 Hospitals out of service 493 Health workers killed 26 Violent incidents against MSF 13 March – the Israeli military conducted operations in Jenin (West Bank). At the MSF-supported Khalil Suleiman hospital, people standing in the hospital courtyard were fired on. Six people by the emergency room door were wounded, two of whom later died. 27 March – an airstrike hit a greenhouse near Al-Shaboura clinic, an MSF-supported facility in Rafah. Several people were reportedly killed in the attack, despite a United Nations Security Council Resolution requiring a ceasefire being passed on 25 March. No MSF staff or patients were hurt. 31 March – an Israeli airstrike hit the yard of MSF-supported Al-Aqsa hospital compound just outside of the emergency room, where many internally displaced people were sheltering. Many people were killed and injured. After the attack, part of the MSF team had to stop providing care. 1 April – after a 14-day long operation by Israeli forces in and around Al-Shifa hospital, the hospital was left in ruins and out of service. An MSF clinic in the hospital’s vicinity was also badly damaged. Hundreds of people were killed, including medical staff, and mass arrests of medical staff and other people took place in and around the hospital. 21 April - an MSF-trained paramedical volunteer was shot in the leg while on duty during a three-day incursion in Tulkarem and Nur Shams refugee camps in the West Bank. Due to the hostilities, it took him seven hours to reach the hospital. 6 May - an MSF-supported stabilisation point was stormed during a violent raid by Israeli forces in Tulkarem and Nur Shams camps in the West Bank. Volunteer paramedics trained by MSF were harassed and no longer feel safe in providing lifesaving care to patients. please log in to view this image A crushed MSF car lies in the street, following its deliberate destruction by Israeli forces. Gaza, Palestine, 24 November 2023. MSFissued several evacuation orders. The offensive and the evacuation orders further reduce access to healthcare in an already decimated health system, leaving people almost no options for even basic medical care. Between 6 and 12 May, we had to suspend our activities at Al-Shaboura clinic, handed over our activities at Al-Emirati hospital, and were forced to close our activities in Rafah Indonesian Field hospital as we could not guarantee the security and safety of patients and our staff with the ongoing offensive. In view of this extensive timeline of reprehensible actions, MSF once again calls on all parties to respect and protect healthcare facilities, healthcare workers and patients in Gaza and the West Bank. An immediate and sustained ceasefire must be implemented in Gaza now to put an end to the suffering of people and the destruction of Gaza. We demand an immediate and unfettered flow of aid into the entirety of the Gaza Strip. We demand accountability for our colleagues and their family members who have been killed and wounded, and for patients. https://www.msf.org/strikes-raids-a...onths-relentless-attacks-healthcare-palestine
The Doctors Without Borders medical charity (MSF) said on Thursday it rejected Israel's position that an airstrike which killed seven aid workers was a "regrettable incident", saying many humanitarian personnel have been attacked previously. "We do not accept the narrative of regrettable incidents," Christopher Lockyear, Secretary General of MSF International, said at a press conference in Geneva. "We do not accept it because what has happened to World Central Kitchen and MSF's convoys and shelters is part of the same pattern of deliberate attacks on humanitarians, health workers, journalists, U.N. personnel, schools and homes." He added: "We have been saying it for weeks now: this pattern of attacks is either intentional or indicative of reckless incompetence." "That these attacks on humanitarian workers are allowed to happen is a political choice," he said. "Our movements and locations are shared, coordinated and identified already. This is about impunity, a total disregard for the laws of war. And now it must become about accountability." Lockyear said MSF had urged Israel to investigate a deadly attack on an MSF convoy in November and probe other incidents involving the organisation, including an Israeli attack on an MSF shelter in Al-Mawasi in February. "I have received no explanation for any of the incidents," Lockyear said. https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...t-strike-against-aid-workers-gaza-2024-04-04/
We are outraged and strongly condemn the killing of our colleague, Fadi Al-Wadiya, in an attack this morning in Gaza City. The attack killed Fadi, along with four other people including two children, while he was cycling to work, near the MSF clinic where he was providing care. Fadi was a 33-year-old physiotherapist and father of three. He joined MSF in 2018. Our thoughts are with his family and loved ones. Fadi’s loss marks the sixth killing of an MSF staff member in Gaza since Oct. 7, 2023. “Killing a healthcare worker while on his way to provide vital medical care to wounded victims of the endless massacres across Gaza is beyond shocking; it’s cynical and abhorrent.” Caroline Seguin, MSF operations manager for Palestine. This attack is yet another brutal example of the senseless killing of Palestinian civilians and healthcare workers in Gaza. We are continuing to verify the details of this horrific incident. https://www.doctorswithoutborders.c...ndemns-killing-of-sixth-staff-member-in-gaza/
Gaza: Israelis Attacking Known Aid Worker Locations Israeli forces have carried out at least eight strikes on aid workers’ convoys and premises in Gaza since October 2023, even though aid groups had provided their coordinates to the Israeli authorities to ensure their protection, Human Rights Watch said today. Israeli authorities did not issue advance warnings to any of the aid organizations before the strikes, which killed or injured at least 31 aid workers and those with them. More than 250 aid workers have been killed in Gaza since the October 7 assault in Israel. https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/05/14/gaza-israelis-attacking-known-aid-worker-locations
